anarchism is the dissolution of the state and its monopoly on violence, not the dissolution of law. an anarchic society can have a law but no state, but a state and no law is a dictatorship
Ya, I know. I’ve just never been able to join you in the presumption that law can exist without a state. That’s where property rights come from. That’s where the mediums of exchange come from. At the end of the day someone’s in charge of making rules and enforcing them. At the family level up to a national level; and perhaps even a global level. I admire programs like USaid and see the value of governments. If there ever was a time to gain support for those ideas it would be now. I just want the government I had 4 months ago to come back.
And at this point I should chime in and note that the meaning of “state” in anarchist theory is not the dictionary one – taking wikipedia:
A state is a political entity that regulates society and the population within a definite territory
Other societies have states, anarchist societies are states, by that definition. (Just for the record fascism is the unity of capital and state, not society and state).
Rather, the Anarchist definition formed under the influence of monarchical and bourgeois authoritarianism. Redoing the terminology and using “hierarchy” or something is way overdue IMNSHO: Continuing to use an unexpected definition of “state” causes lots of confusion, provides no clarity, thus hinders praxis, and as the theoretical and practical purpose of theory is to bolster praxis it has to go.
Also makes explaining why Ancaps aren’t Anarchist way easier.
“In your stateless society, who will collect the garbage?” – “The municipalities, just as they do now, I guess” – “Didn’t you just say you want to abolish the state?” – “Yes the municipality will not be a state any more” – “You’re stupid and should feel stupid I’m voting for the fascists at least the garbage gets collected on time”.
In a society with equally distributed power of violence you wouldn’t have laws, but mere loose agreements. It is the monopoly on violence that gives one the authority to impose laws.
mostly this is a joke about the phrase “true communism has never been tried”: “true law”, a state that fully enforces and abides by the law, has never been tried
No lol, just knew lots of Anarchists and communists growing up. Oh and the ‘Fight a Tyranical Government’ Libertarians. What are you guys up to these days? You seen the other two around?
Sorry for assuming you were a weeb that was very rude. I also did not know they were Japanese anarchist so that is an exciting revelation. Carry-on brother. That must be a true oddity in your culture.
I spent about 3 months traveling between Tokyo and Kagoshima. Even made it to Okinawa and that small island south of Kagoshima. I really appreciate the hospitality that was extended to me the whole time I was there. You guys are truly wonderful nation full of beautiful people history and scenery. Did not meet a single anarchist there, except maybe a French traveler I spent a lot of time drinking with.
I spent my days in museums and spent my nights drinking at dodgy bars talking to people about all sorts of things. I don’t really set out to meet any types of people but I met all types in Japan. Got very drunk with a heart surgeon in Kagoshima. You guys are not politically outspoken so I wouldn’t assume anyone’s politics. Most of the conversations were around Japanese history, American culture and food.
Bro you already have anarchy, trump has turned the USA into a lawless place. This is it chief. Enjoy.
anarchism is the dissolution of the state and its monopoly on violence, not the dissolution of law. an anarchic society can have a law but no state, but a state and no law is a dictatorship
Ya, I know. I’ve just never been able to join you in the presumption that law can exist without a state. That’s where property rights come from. That’s where the mediums of exchange come from. At the end of the day someone’s in charge of making rules and enforcing them. At the family level up to a national level; and perhaps even a global level. I admire programs like USaid and see the value of governments. If there ever was a time to gain support for those ideas it would be now. I just want the government I had 4 months ago to come back.
And at this point I should chime in and note that the meaning of “state” in anarchist theory is not the dictionary one – taking wikipedia:
Other societies have states, anarchist societies are states, by that definition. (Just for the record fascism is the unity of capital and state, not society and state).
Rather, the Anarchist definition formed under the influence of monarchical and bourgeois authoritarianism. Redoing the terminology and using “hierarchy” or something is way overdue IMNSHO: Continuing to use an unexpected definition of “state” causes lots of confusion, provides no clarity, thus hinders praxis, and as the theoretical and practical purpose of theory is to bolster praxis it has to go.
Also makes explaining why Ancaps aren’t Anarchist way easier.
“In your stateless society, who will collect the garbage?” – “The municipalities, just as they do now, I guess” – “Didn’t you just say you want to abolish the state?” – “Yes the municipality will not be a state any more” – “You’re stupid and should feel stupid I’m voting for the fascists at least the garbage gets collected on time”.
All very fair points. Thank you for adding some color and context.
In a society with equally distributed power of violence you wouldn’t have laws, but mere loose agreements. It is the monopoly on violence that gives one the authority to impose laws.
given the way real world “monopolies” on violence work, i would contend that true law has never existed
What do you mean by “true law”?
mostly this is a joke about the phrase “true communism has never been tried”: “true law”, a state that fully enforces and abides by the law, has never been tried
Sir, I’m not a fascist. I don’t support death camps.
Maybe you’re looking for another emperor in another castle?
No lol, just knew lots of Anarchists and communists growing up. Oh and the ‘Fight a Tyranical Government’ Libertarians. What are you guys up to these days? You seen the other two around?
The usual: Networking, feeding people, arming people, building solidarity, etc…
Did I mention I’m not American? Or did my name fly past you?
Sorry for assuming you were a weeb that was very rude. I also did not know they were Japanese anarchist so that is an exciting revelation. Carry-on brother. That must be a true oddity in your culture.
I am. Thank you for acknowledging my existence.
🫱🏻🫲🏾
I spent about 3 months traveling between Tokyo and Kagoshima. Even made it to Okinawa and that small island south of Kagoshima. I really appreciate the hospitality that was extended to me the whole time I was there. You guys are truly wonderful nation full of beautiful people history and scenery. Did not meet a single anarchist there, except maybe a French traveler I spent a lot of time drinking with.
Where you looking for anarchists, or tourism?
I spent my days in museums and spent my nights drinking at dodgy bars talking to people about all sorts of things. I don’t really set out to meet any types of people but I met all types in Japan. Got very drunk with a heart surgeon in Kagoshima. You guys are not politically outspoken so I wouldn’t assume anyone’s politics. Most of the conversations were around Japanese history, American culture and food.