screenshot of a tweet that is using the screenshot of a tweet to respond to another tweet
the internet sure is fun
It’s just the classic. Everything is over exaggerated and not a big deal until it personally affects you. Then you realize everyone who’s talking about this is going through the same thing or worse. Until the next issue comes up and these people go right back to the sidelines to tell leftists they’re overreacting.
I’d say the essence of being a leftist is to spend so much time trying to prove that other people aren’t left enough that you never get anything thing else accomplished.
I would say the essence of being a leftist is wishing you were dumb enough to not care. The idiots seem to have a great time.
I don’t think many leftists have to worry about that.
I actually just enjoy good faith conversation and debate, the progress is the point of progressives not putting out fires constantly.
It’s so weird how when effective leftist leaders are regularly disappeared or flat out assassinated for several generations, the movement falters due to lack of effective leadership.
Classic reactionary take, now we must fight to the death.
Here, hold my bong…
At least you’ll be doing something.
Spoken like a liberal
Palpatineironic.jpg
🧑🍳🤌💋
To provide a materialist explanation the way I understand it: From my perspective, that’s because there has been no proper communist movement in the sense of how Marx put it - a really existing historical movement as material fact in the political space - for many decades. (I, personally, do not think the Eastern Bloc fit this role after the 1920s, where it developed a state-capitalist turn due to their material conditions, e.g. having to industrialise, advancing from feudal-like structures, trading on the world market, etc. - cue the infighting over that interpretation.)
So “leftists” instead were just fighting against each other on a market of attention for resources - the dynamics thus becoming those of ideology, often religion-like, instead of material politics. Morality, purity tests, cult-like structures - all that shit was (is) common, because the material position of many groups was (is) - no matter how they would like to describe themselves - not really in opposition to capital all that much. It was in opposition to any other group for members, donations, attention and cultural hegemony within the “sphere of leftism” within the status quo, so to speak.
But at the core, I think that the mode of analysis has always been correct: One of class dynamics, one of property relations, one of production and distribution. So, the clever lots of the majority of leftist currents have been correctly Cassandra-ing for a long time now.
And right now, I think we are very much witnessing a proper, materialist crisis, the breakdown of the liberal status quo, social-democratic management of class war through the welfare state retreating - thus, I think necessarily, there will also emerge a proper communist, materialist movement again, which will hopefully direct the infighting over resources and members within the status quo, to proper political struggle again. (Not that the former will completely vanish, but I do think, it will slip into the background more). A material movement again, instead of an ideological one. One where it isn’t that much about what -ism you call yourself, or what flag you fly, or what newspaper you recommend to your friends - but one about how to get the political power so that you and your neighbours don’t get worked to death in labour camps and capital ceases to exist as a material force.
thus, I think necessarily, there will also emerge a proper communist, materialist movement again
What in the world would make you think that? Sounds more like hope.
That’s fair criticism, and I guess that is something that happens in my psyche as well. But the thought process is basically:
The communist movement of the 20th century had been pushed back by a mix of Social Democracy succeeding in mitigating class conflict in the West, world market structures creating conditions for the exploitation of internationally cheap labour in service of upholding the global profit rate while still maintaining high living standards for the big Blocs, the conditions after WW2, where so much had been destroyed, creating opportunities for massive growth and basically 0 unemployment for a few decades - and the hope of the Soviet Union maybe actually being a viable solution directing class struggle into imperialist bloc-think instead of political struggle for the working class itself.
The Social Democratic welfare state is basically in retreat across the board, from what I gathered, even in its traditional places of strength, like Scandinavia, it develops more exclusionary mechanisms. One of the main reasons of this happening is related to point #2, that the global net profit rate has been in crisis since the late 70s, which prompted neoliberal politics (and ultimately also the crisis that furthered the collapse of the Soviet Union due to their dependence on the global resource market). At the same time, international, cheap labour has become less ubiquitous, mainly due to China developing a new, massive middle class, which removed a huge chunk of that cheap labour, and which is now also becoming a player in the kind of economic imperialism the west had been doing to uphold its own balance. (Note that China is now starting to face its own crises as well, as that period of growth begins to stagnate). The Soviet collapse also shook things up, removing what in hindsight turned out to be a false hope, but percisely the removal of a false hope opens up the room for a new one.
Thus, the underlying class conflict is erupting again, and from that, political organisation is necessarily as well. Say what you will, but there suddenly were phenomena like “socialism” being a genuine word even in US political discourse. There’s currently disorganised flailing around of politics without an underlying organisation and consciousness, as that old middle class is dying to serve the profit rate. The way I see it, we are in the chaotic times of growing problems and suffering (also exacerbated by the climate catastrophe), but those problems and suffering have always also created the contradictions and conditions for change. The very fact that fascism is organising is in my eyes a symptom of the upper class reacting to a new, burgeoning class struggle.
Now, I have no crystal ball to see what will happen, no one does. (And I’d like to stress: Pessimistic positions don’t, either. Just because there is a current in our ideology upholding the status quo to immediately dismiss anything remotely hopeful as impossible.) But it seems clear to me, that the material struggle between classes is very real, again. And the tools have all still been there, if anything, the internet actually increases international organisational capabilities.
I think across the world, you have the phenomenon of the younger generations being less interested politically in the old status quo, while material conditions continue to get worse and consolidation of capital does so as well. In recent elections here in Germany, the younger generation has been as split as never before, between leftist movements on the one hand, while their support for fascism was about the same as in the rest of society, and the old centrist parties had shrunk to a clear minority in their support, as one example.
No matter what it will be calling itself, I indeed think it is inevitable, that there will be a new movement of international struggle, that will fit the bill of “communist” - the really existing movement in opposition to capital and its tendency to create a growing class of people that own nothing beyond subsistence but their labour power to sell.
How strong it will be, how it will pan out in the end - that will be decided by us and our actions. But the political necessity of asking questions of property relations and class, that exists and will become more prevalent, I am sure of it.
Are you sure you’re not in a bubble? I agree that people are more disillusioned with the existing class structure than ever, but outside of a few limited internet forums I don’t see any support for an alternative organization, be that socialism or anything else. Younger generations are paralyzed by apathy on the one hand and a utopian childish “just do a revolution bro” armchair warrior mentality on the other. The few serious places are hamstrung by purity testing and ideological infighting and really obvious infiltration by Chinese and Russian state interests.
Maybe I am, part of being in a bubble is, that it is hard to properly know that you are. Although I think I prefer the term “to live in ideology” - because it is perfectly possible to consume lots and lots of different, real-life sources, and still delude oneself into believing things, by only viewing them through a distorted lens. But I do see what you mean, and my answer has been: That was also the case when socialist movements first formed, needing to go through a phase of disillusionment with the former French Revolutionary period, as well as Utopian Socialism first developing as a multipronged movement/collection of ideas, until the realities of class struggle shaped it in a specific way. For example: Yet immature phenomena like the Luddites or the Silesian Weaver’s Uprising were indeed necessary steps, for further developments later on.
I also cannot say as much about the state of things in the US, outside of internet chatter and mainstream news, that much is true.
I had a talk about this with a friend a few years back, who essentially made the same argument as you did, because all he saw was things getting worse. I think that observation isn’t wrong, and will probably remain true for years, probably one or two decades at least. All with political confusion, further vanishing of the middle class and increased barbarism within politics. But it’s precisely because things will get so unbearably bad, globally, that I think a material movement opposing it will appear again - successful or not - because that has always happened in history.
Concerning the younger generations: The apathy is precisely a thing, that is also upheld by ideological structures making organisation impossible, by basically making the very thought of being hopeful in any way seem foolish. I don’t know if it ultimately will be foolish - but I do know, this sort of pessimistic current has been one of the main ways the status quo defends itself. (See for example Ẑiẑek’s famous interpretation of the “coffee without milk/coffee without cream” joke - about how what is presented as not within the status quo is essential to how the status quo presents itself; Similarily with his exploration of how ideology nowadays tends to work by not believing yourself, but deferring to people believing for you - “I myself don’t have superstitions, but the others do, so I shouldn’t try to exert influence over society that, it would be futile/disrespectful.”) Thus, I, of course, don’t know how it will pan out either, but I do remain convinced - it’s basically impossible to have the total collapse of many essential structures as we, in my opinion, will have/are having, without a dialectically growing answer in the form of a new material movement.
And besides that, younger generations also need some time to escape utopian, childish interpretations, one way or the other - not just in the way movements develop historically, as I mentioned in the first paragraph - but also, how people develop and mature with age.
We’ve never tried a pure and proper capitalistic movement either.
We’ve never tried a pure and proper capitalistic movement either.
Genuinely confused what you even mean there - because, yes, we did. Like, to the extent “proper” makes sense - “pure” is nonsense that only makes sense for ideologies, not materialist movements. I assume there is some intentional snark to it? I may be missing some signalling there, AuDHD and all, but I think it is worthwhile to explore that idea, regardless:
What do you think the long and arduous, sometimes brutal, sometimes liberatory, stuff was, that happened in the early modern era? Where property relations and the mode of production changed from Feudalism to global (back then at first colonial) markets and industrial capitalist wage labour? That is also precisely, why I think a material analysis of the Eastern Bloc is so damning: They had wage labour, they traded on the international market, they even had hire- and fire at factory gates at times, with a more decentralised economy than more consolidated western economies at times (managers competing against each others for state resources) - even though their ideals said that that should not happen. Not for lack of their purity or ideological drive, simply because the material and historical conditions panned out like that for those entities.
That is what I am getting at: “Pure” does not make any sense, it’s ideological nonsense, IMO. And “proper” only means - being a material, real political force. If you go on general strike, the effects of that at first don’t care for ideology at all, they are immediate. (further organisational capabilities are still important, though)
I think that’s something we sort of lost in ideology, especially since the 80s - thinking not from the perspective of “ideal -> reality”, plopping an ideal on top of reality (and failing, and getting more brutal in failure) - but instead “reality <-> contradictions within reality”, where there are developments stemming from the way we produce, we distribute, power manifests and we, more broadly, interact with the world, and then resulting from that, failures and contradictions building up, leading to eventual, revolutionary change over several key, historical events. (That often fail repeatedly at first. See how republics and democracy faired in the 19th century after the French Revolution, where the common consensus for a long time was basically: “That can only result in new mass terror and a new Napoleon - or, if at all, maybe work for a low population, rural settler state like the US”)
As an aside: That does not mean, vision is completely unimportant, or anything, just that vision is itself is not useful as an ideal to strife for, but just a tool for changing along what is necessary and possible materially, and organising for that.
I’m talking about Ayn Rand’s vision as expressed through her character John Galt in her 1957 classic love story Atlas Shrugged.
Ah, okay, I was indeed missing all the snark, lol
I don’t appreciate my contributions to this conversation being summarily dismissed as ‘snark.’.
Typical leftist.
So all these replies I’ve been making to you have been in vain, oh SMCF?
I always enjoy your replies!
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lateral_violence
Lateral Violence occurs within marginalized groups where members strike out at each other as a result of being oppressed. The oppressed become the oppressors of themselves and each other. Common behaviours that prevent positive change from occurring include gossiping, bullying, finger-pointing, backstabbing and shunning.
— Kweykway Consulting[5]
I used to joke “I would resist Trump’s coming fascist dictatorship, but Obama’s socialist Muslim theocracy took all my guns.”
But it’s been a while since I thought any such warnings were funny. Sorry I ever did.
I find a large part of being a leftist is taking down stickers/flyers and putting up other stickers/flyers too
I posted a reply here and it got removed by an admin. I’m done recommending Lemmy now.
My dude, you do realize that it’s easy as fuck to see the shit you post that gets removed? Yes, you should be done recommending Lemmy because I don’t think we want your friends. Incredibly narrow-minded and frankly bigoted takes on immigration that serve no purpose other than revealing you see only black-and white cartoons of the world. Fishing for sympathy for having your BS removed only makes you look more entitled and obnoxious.
Get out.
A quick look through the modlogs show that the comment you made that was removed was an incredibly racist blanket statement that was deeply offensive to immigrants.
Perhaps it’s best for everyone that lemmy not have someone of your mindset recommending it in the first place.
it’s a lot harder to fish for sympathy when modlogs are public
Normally I’d explain you’re on one of the tankie instances but your account is old enough for me to think you probably know that already
I had a comment removed in microblog memes and can’t find a single post I made there. I just unjoined and blocked the community. No chance i’ll be accused of something I did not do by them again. Oh a lemmy.ml user. Now it all makes more sense.
I still roll my eyes at “the cruelty is the point” sometimes because it’s a bigass cudgel used by Leftists to stop any possible discussion about improving something.
Sometimes the cruelty is the point. Sometimes the cruelty is unknown to the people who are unintentionally inflicting it. Sometimes the cruelty is just the necessary outcome of an unfeeling universe and no one can stop it.
If you can’t acknowledge that, then you’re just as dumb and brainwashed as the MAGAs.
If the cruelty wasn’t the point then effort would be made to alleviate it, the universe might not feel but people are capable of it.
That’s the entire part of the concept of “what makes us human”
then effort would be made to alleviate it
That’s the eye-rolling part. Effort, in many cases, IS being made to alleviate it. But committee meetings and policy proposals and exploratory hearings are BORING, and anyway none of that stuff is on TikTok so does it really exist?
The saying “the cruelty is the point” is often an indicator of someone who is very uninformed and yet still has strongly held beliefs. It’s an inability to see the complicated, messy reality. It’s a childlike desire for a simple world with a Bad Guy to fight against.
Sometimes there is one. We do live in a world with cartoonishly evil, over the top bad people. But sometimes that’s just not how it works.
Those methods of alleviation are exactly what Trumpists are banning and prohibiting
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that dei policies won’t create a two tier society that people resent
If DEI was really ineffective and bad why are investment banks sticking with it? Those groups love money and hate doing anything that loses money…
that immigrants are a benefit to the society’s they join.
This is true in most cases. I’d argue the immigrants from Christian Europe to “The New World” were detrimental to the societies they encountered as the unfounded racial supremacist notions of the Europeans enabled the murder of those societies but in the modern age all statistics point to immigrants being a net positive from a capitalist’s perspective.
that being soft on crime and mental health diagnoses will reduce crime and improve people’s quality of life.
A ton of crime can be attributed to Reagan’s shuttering of the nation’s asylums. Tough on crime legislation has little evidence to support its effectiveness.
that following the rule of law allows isn’t a disadvantage.
If we followed the rule of law we would have different people in power. The GOP has refused to enforce the law at every significant turn in the last 25 years.
immigrants and equal rights are compatible.
Why wouldn’t that be the case?
why are investment banks sticking with it? Those groups love money and hate doing anything that loses money…
Yeah but sometimes they’re REALLY BAD at making money lol. They just have so goddamn much money that it’s difficult to lose.
Which has nothing to do with why they intend to keep DEI policies
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