Good to see Porco Rosso getting some love!
I feel that the original quote “better a pig than a fascist” is more relevant and important these days than this take
There’s a point I’ve heard that the kind of slop that gen AI can be used for is good for fascists, because they’re not trying to say anything or make it cohesive, they just want a glut of vague sentiments they’re agreeable to, and gen AI can give them that without having to deal with pesky artists who have thoughts of their own like, “what you want is bad, actually,” “maybe fuck you,” and “I will stab you in the eye with my pencil.”
Someone at studio Ghibli recently said something about gen ai, apparently. But yeah agreed.
Someone
Miyazaki, co-founder and chairman of Ghibli Studio
I thought he came out against it years ago, didn’t know he said anything recent. Although it makes sense he wouldn’t stop talking about it these days especially.
nah, people are talking about what he said years ago. He didn’t say anything recently (or at least, not that I know of)
I still stand by Generative AI being a useful tool. It’s just in the hands of big unilateral corporate tech rather than a public state, and artists depend on IP laws to gain profits to live, rather than being supported by a robust welfare state to provide art for a robust public domain.
Related, the post-WWII programs in England that fueled the Rock-&-Roll boom in the 1960s (with the invention and development of the electric guitar). Socialized art is a system that works well!
And yes, we’ll probably have to collapse the current civilization and rebuild it with mutant animals before we get there. < sad, disappointed existential dread face >
It’s just in the hands of big unilateral corporate tech rather than a public state, and artists depend on IP laws to gain profits to live, rather than being supported by a robust welfare state to provide art for a robust public domain.
The second situation is a fantasy until after we have a communist revolution. So, don’t defend gen AI until after we create communism.
The second situation is a fantasy until after we have a communist revolution.
Only because it was taken from the public by Disney, since the courts ceased recognizing the public as stakeholders.
But the Constitutional function of copyright is to create a robust public domain. As that is no longer the function of copyright, we can abolish it. And the only thing that is keeping us from abolishing it is the same obstacles keeping us from abolishing autocracy.
So revolution that bridges the way to socialized art may be more necessary in the immediate future than it appears (whether or not it’s easy).
I agree, I think generative AI is insanely cool technology (and if a new local one comes out I’ll probably play with it for a bit) but I can’t see image generation at least ever being a net positive for humanity until we get some sort of welfare state.
Currently the negative effects are mitigated by it being relatively easy to tell ai images apart from real images, and since ai images take almost no effort to make, they have naturally become an instant sign marking low effort content wherever they are used. When people stop being able to tell ai images apart is when it will start to become a problem.
Great post, drew out a couple of the most annoying kind of person on the internet so I could block them.
I prefer to tag them myself. Let’s be know their opinion is less than worthless and i can still dislike their stuff if i run across it in the wild.
Just remember: a medical doctors opinion on why your car broke down is less valuable than a mechanics opinion.
The original artist of this is AdiFitri
Did he paid studio ghibli for making a draw of their characters? Did he asked the authors of the character for permission for using its image?
Is not that how it’s supposed to work for anti-AI folks? Or is it “rules for thee but not for me”?
Hey, guess what! Your argument is so inane, even OpenAI is now convinced it was a really stupid idea too. But sure, go on pretending that freely available fan art by a single person is exactly the same as a paid service by a multi-billion dollar company.
The thing is that I as a single person, can algo use AI self hosted in my computer. And I can, and being me I will, offer anything I made for free.
If you tell me that the bad thing about AI is pretending to charge money for their usage we would have an agreement. I think is a technology that should be funded by the community or the state and distributed for free usage of everyone.
What the fuck are you talking about?
He’s badly arguing that since the artist saw, has knowledge of, and has recreated the art style using his brain, he’s no better then someone who uses AI to do the ‘same thing’
He can’t tell why it’s different and that’s to be expected of an ai prompter. It would take effort.
I have no respect of a AI user who use AI and call them Artist.
It’s the same rule, “fair use”. Copyright isn’t absolute, it needs to strike a balance between “give creators control of their thing” but also “people deserve to participate in our collective culture.”
Making a one-off drawing of a character and not trying to make money off of it likely checks the fair use boxes (it’s an explicitly fuzzy system, so a trial would be needed to say for sure if it’s fair use or not). Whether the training set for a generative AI system is fair use or not is still an open question, but many feel that it can’t be, as it’s operating on a massive scale (basically every image ever created by humanity) and has the potential to eliminate the entire industry of humans selling the art they create, which copyright is supposed to protect. Ghibli isn’t going to be harmed by someone drawing a picture of their characters for a meme. It could be harmed by another company making money off of mass production of knockoffs of their style which were created with thousands of unauthorized copies of their direct artwork.
I feel like all the people out there are mindless NPCs that just do anything a big corp say it’s cool. make me feel helpless
As someone who uses generative AI, I don’t use it out of some mindless obedience to corporations, but rather because it can massively reduce the work needed to perform certain tasks.
I think the fight against AI is a losing battle. Better to push for regulations in energy usage. (And no, I don’t give a fuck about artists’ intellectual property. I think intellectual property rights are holding humanity back in order to enrich a few artists who falsely and arrogantly believe themselves to be original thinkers, and who furthermore believe that being an original thinker gives them the right to prevent other people from spreading their ideas or thinking of the same thing.)
I use it for fun to make character pictures and world maps. And I’m going to keep using it. Every time I see a fan get attacked by a community because they made something like a fake magic card with AI I lose a little more respect for anti AI people. They’ve lost the plot. They can’t help themselves. It’s a knee jerk reaction. I saw a kid cosplay as a version of Ellie from The Last of Us that was INSPIRED by an AI picture of the character and moderators had to lock the post because of the AI hate. This was a real person who did a real cosplay and they attacked her, viscerally.
I’m done with anti-AI people.
Can anyone explain the context? Nad something happened recently?
The precipitating factor seems to Ghibli where some dude who draws for a living said ai drawing lacked soul, more or less. Then a bunch of people who very likely pirated the first guy’s movies leapt to his defense saying yeah only humans can make art because we are unique in our ability to duplicate information from our environment but with imagined changes. If an ai takes data from it’s environment, duplicates it and adapts it to it’s current need that’s stealing good solid union work.
Or something.
Soon it’s going to be an economic thing because if you can get “good enough” at 1/1000 the price after an up front fee…all those folks who do generic voice work (soldier #3) or art work in games are gonna be out of a job. Sadly it’s not enough of an industry to impact the broader economy so they will just be completely boned until automation finds a way to get rid of a much more significant fraction of the labor force. If we can get to great depression levels that might be enough.
Don’t think he drew for a living but drew for a fortune 🤣
Chatgpt got really good at generating images and a lot of more people are testing it and some people are salty about it.
No, some asshole generated a fake cease and desist letter from Ghibli to try to start some drama.
Even tried to act like some kind of genAI martyr ready to sacrifice himself for the good of AI…
First time I hear about that, meanwhile even my wife that is normiecore saw guides on how to use chatgpt to generate images on Instagram and asked me to install chatgpt in her phone.
What the fuck is normiecore?
And your wife isn’t creating anything using ChatGPT. It’s hallucinating with no actual intelligence or creativity that’s trained off actual creative works. If your wife wants to create art, then she needs to pick a medium and get practicing.
It’s like hardcore except not that, and also vaguely insulting towards their wife (or at least I’ve never seen anyone write the word “normie” without it being patronizing).
Bullying people who does no harm to anyone is cool now?
Many people use gen AI for completely innocuous tasks. And for many things that harm nobody. Still you take pleasure insulting and degrading Innocent people.
That’s not better than any other bully/oppresor.
Don’t act surprised when people stop helping and having solidarity with your fights when you have spent a decade insulting everyone around you.
There’s nothing wrong with making fun of someone for making a bad life choice.
Bullying people for things that they can’t change about themselves is different. That’s not cool
This level of insult is bullying.
And it’s not a bad life choice. Bad life choice is choosing to go online to insult a lot of innocent people in other to feed that bad human in your heart.
These latest years “”““left leaning””" spaces have been feeling more like right wing echo chambers of hate and bigotry towards more and more and more people.
Mark my words, this will have consequences, and some people may ask in a couple of years how is it that no one came for help when they need it. And they shall remember that the blatantly insulted those they will be asking for help and that people just got sick of them.
At least it’s what’s happening to me. There are many places I won’t show up for helping, that I would have helped in the past. But I cannot stand next to people who have show me that they have the heart as full of hate as the alt-right. We will most likely end up forming our own spaces I suppose.
This is the most ridiculously performative speech i’ve seen in a while, and i live on friggin tumblr
Mark my words, this will have consequences, and some people may ask in a couple of years how is it that no one came for help when they need it. And they shall remember that the blatantly insulted those they will be asking for help and that people just got sick of them.
These comments just make me sad, because I have a feeling you are not talking specifically about artists mad at AI art when you say ‘some people’. You are letting the voices of a few people convince you to abadon the silence of a majority. And in this current political world, that could result in a lot of people who see eye to eye with you being punished.
It makes me sad too. But the amount of people who just push hate speech for every little thing in left leaning spaces nowadays is too big.
In this case the little thing is just insulting people using an AI tool (not even the big bussiness they are insulting the PEOPLE). But I’ve seen it more and more with a lot of different examples in the latest years. Another big instance is militant veganism, I’m sick of being called a rapist and a genocidal guy equivalent to Hitler for just eating meat, so they are alone until they got their shit together and start calling out the bigots in their spaces.
And like those two each year that passes there’s something new you have to blindly follow the lead or be insulted for doing nothing wrong. It feels like in the left community things are not open to debate anymore, and any dissidence of though is quickly punished. It’s almost ironic that the place for diversity does not feel like any diverse thinking is allowed anymore.
This AI thing have not even be debated anywhere, some people decided that it’s bad and that’s it. No further arguments are allowed, and it’s free season for hunting and insulting the PEOPLE that even dares to use a tool that’s everywhere to use right now.
I know is a vocal minority, and that’s the vocal minority I want to leave out, and I hope we can build spaces where this hateful people are called out. Because right now in the community spaces we have these people are not being called out, quite the contrary they are prone to reach positions of power and take hold of the communities, most probably because people prone to violence and conflict are far more likely to fight and achieve for positions of power. While peaceful people tend to get away from such conflicts.
and any dissidence of though is quickly punished.
You’re right, we should be more open. You want to do flat earth?
I’ll start.
…Uh, what am I supposed to say here…
“I can not see the curve in the horizon.”
Use that energy against homeopathy and pseudosciences that are prevalent in liberal spaces.
Oh, so you are a right winger. That explains a lot actually. You don’t understand things exist at a deeper level than aesthetics and you failed to be creative, so like all the big talking heads you tried to fake a bunch of bullshit and failed again.
No. i’m not. I would consider myself between anarchism, communism and socialism. Those are the ideologies more close to my mind.
You know that I’m probably a better painter than you are, don’t you?
I have done a great deal of handmade painting. And whenever I’m doing some art is still my primary way of doing things. I took several courses in traditional painting back in university. Hell, I’m far better at doing other forms of art than at doing AI art, I have not dedicated enough time to the technique yet to be truly good at it.I also play guitar and have some songs I’m quite proud of.
I’n just not a brainwashed radical, and I’m open minded enough to see that there are many different ways to do things or to see the world.
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You know, if you’re not good at art, you don’t have to be an artist. Not everyone needs to paint the mona lisa. You can just do something you’re good at instead.
If you are not good at painting portraits or landscapes you cannot use a camera, that’s cheating. You need to leave that task to oil painters. Because pushing a button and getting an image is not art.
Only oil painters are real artists. If you are not an oil painter don’t even dare to try to express yourself.
People with cameras choose what they take photos of.
People using AI also choose what they want to create.
And generative artists for instance, a lesser clue of what the final result will be than a AI artist.
Generative art is not art?
Collages are art?
Art gatekeepers are always funny, full of inconsistencies.
People using AI also choose what they want to create.
No, they do not. That is, in fact, the point of having a decision engine make decisions for you. I would know, I’ve used it.
Holding a pencil over a piece of paper don’t make you a master of graphite on canvas.
So no, you would not know. Same as you have show me a vast lack of knowledge in art-related themes.
Once again I must repeat that you don’t even knew what the concept of generative art, as the conceptual art that started getting famous on the 1960s, is.
How are you even able to talk about these topics without such basic previous knowledge?
You have the right to have opinions, but you must admit that opinions from people who know are more valuable that opinions from people who does not know. I have argued here with people with very based and knowledge-funded opinions against AI art. I would recommend to read those to get an oposition to my points.
Holding a pencil over a piece of paper don’t make you a master of graphite on canvas.
But it does make you an artist.
The point of art is humanity. Art is inherently an expressive medium. There’s no such thing as “good” art or “bad” art. If you’re outsourcing your art to a machine, a glorified denoising algorithm, you lose the point. Sure, it might look pretty. Sure, it may be of the style and appearance you are aiming for. Nonetheless, it is not art, as it is inherently inhuman.
What is human is the effort that went into making that algorithm do what you want. The art is not the image, the art is the algorithm. The art is the prompt, by definition. But the image is not art, and calling it that is a misnomer.
You are free to believe what you want. Nobody can change your opinion by willing it. I have used generative AI “art” applications before. While they’re interesting, and have their uses, (such as coming up with new ideas, or to assist with backgrounding, which is what I have used them for,) what they create simply is not art. Their output is not copyrightable.
To draw a stick figure is to make art. To write a detailed description of an image is literary art. To feed that description into GAI is an action one may take, but its output is not art.
So generative art is not art?
Generative art is an art style that existed for decades (some people even mark up the XVIII century as the birth of this style). In this art style the artist create an algorithm, and that algorithm will later produce diverse results (music or plastic arts) based on randomness so the final result is unknown and volatile.
This art is not made with traditional techniques, as an algorithm is used to produce the final piece. Nowadays this art is obviously computer generated.
And no, this kind of generative art does no uses or have anything to do with AI generative art. Completely different techniques.
So generative art is not art?
The public has largely decided that it’s not. That’s why it’s controversial to use. Don’t waste my time.
This is true, however, i covered that in my previous response. The algorithm hand-made by a human is the art.
Microwaving a premade meal doesn’t make me a chef. Generative AI is able to make fake copies and imitations of art, but it isn’t an artist. The prompters are just that, they’re reheating someone else’s creation and calling themselves chefs.
So collages are not art? Taking a picture of something not made by you is not art? Fan art is not art? Cover songs are not art?
In all those cases you are reheating someone’s else creation.
Let’s be precise here.
In order to be an artist do you need to have been the sole creator of the object depicted? What level of modification is needed to make you an artist? please be precise.
So collages are not art? Taking a picture of something not made by you is not art? Fan art is not art? Cover songs are not art?
None of these apply here. All of these are transformative.
You know what’s interesting?
A collage made by a person? Yeah, that’s art.
A collage made by my apple photo album? Nah, that’s stupid. Don’t really want to see it. I think it’d be weird if someone insisted I look at the collage their phone made.
You people never seem to grasp the personality and intimacy that makes art what it is. Yes, even when you flick your brush at a canvas like pollack.
It’s not really super interesting for me to argue what’s art and what’s not. Literally anything can be art. For me personally good art comes from self. It has meaning, soul, it often takes great efforts and time to make, and good art makes me feel and think and learn, good art is awesome and impressive.
I’ll admit that I’m biased when it comes to AI generated content. Sure it makes me feel (mostly annoyed, but also scared and frustrated) and AI stuff in general IS interesting from a technology viewpoint. I see it’s application as a tool, even though it’s not for me. But AI art doesn’t come from self or soul or whatever. It might be art but it’s shit art. Slop. Often also ugly to look at, full of mistakes and nonesense details. It’s lazy, it’s without imagination and requires no talent whatsoever.
Using a camera doesn’t make you an artist either. Photography as art takes a lot of effort, just snapping a shot isn’t it. You aren’t very good at this.
Says you. I just don’t agree with your gatekeeping, and closed mind.
I just think that a lot of people how made their identify in “I’m an artist” are having a laughable crisis of identity in a world where producing art takes less effort each day
I’m not an artist,
I’m just better than you on a philosophical leveli just respect artists.
I’m not particularly worried about losing the “likes generative AI” demographic, especially if they’re not going to support more important movements because their poor choices are being mocked.
Glad you are ok with it. Because that’s what will happen. And you may not notice in the echo chamber but an big chunk of the population just uses generative AI for a lot of different purposes. And does not share your views about it. People is diverse, and that includes diverse opinions on copyright/copyleft morality.
And you will eventually lose everyone who is not exactly like you, because “you don’t care”. And then you’ll be alone.
And when they come for you, and you are alone you will post this comic strip of “first they came for…” And blame on others that you are alone and no one show up to stop them from taking you.
‘No harm’
How much CO2 was generated in the creations of these shit posts?
Could that energy been used in some way that generated something more than chuckles?
Less CO2 than playing a videogame.
I can generate an AI image with my graphics card at 100% in 5 seconds, probably less.
I gaming afternoon can be 5 hours with the same graphics cars at 100%.
I suppose you are also worry by the increase of CO2 usage in 3d art, or in digital art instead of pen and paper art. Are you not?
For me it takes less processing power to generate an AI still than to render a frame in blender with a lot of lighting, shaders and whatnot involved.
Artists who oppose AI shouldn’t be allowed to use calculators.
They don’t get to shit on anyone bad at art, while they can’t do basic math without technological help.
Calculators don’t need heaps of power to run. Calculators are not trained on the copyrighted works of artists. And that’s only the start of the issues with your argument.
What a shit take.
Perfect analogy for someone who knows nothing about art or math
Explain it to me, oh wise one.
Bruh just because you don’t like one technology doesn’t mean you don’t have to stop using another. Like not all programmers have to like OOP languages and they are still allowed to use whatever they like
People can do math without calculators; holy stupid.
Everyone can do complex math by hand?
Yes? If they learn shit. Same goes for AI artist they can create art if they practice enough by their own human hand.
K. Maybe most people are not good at everything, and technology can help them bridge the gap in their skills.
I understand this has you very upset. Hopefully you can learn to live with people being able to express ideas without skill someday.
lol how much complex math are people using day to day? You know what functions are on a basic calculator right?
Once again, stupid.
Are scientific calculators not a thing now? Are computers no longer performing complex calculations?
The term “computers” used to refer to people who performed calculations all day. The machines do the job so well now, most people don’t even know it used to refer to a human profession.
The problem isn’t machines replicating human skill sets. It’s that those machines are controlled by capitalists.
Gen. A.I. user and absolutely unashamed for it O7
Pick it up yourself
They aren’t the one pretending to create art
Exactly. That’s the problem. You should be.
No.
