There ain’t no war but class war. The reason America and other democracies around the world are failing to stand up to Russia is because the oligarchs of those democracies are jealous of Russian oligarchs.
Being a billionaire in Russia grants you the power and resources of the state. You can openly murder members of the press, forever imprison the political opposition, bury activists, and crush your workers for trying to unionize. And all you have to do is kiss one ring, that’s it.
Then you can continue destroying the country and turning it into a machine that kills the poor, while you sip on your drink on a beach in Thailand.
I don’t think Putin owns Trump because he’s been compromised in some way, he and other rich people just like the way Putin runs things. So long as you’re loyal you get to do whatever you want.
Thank you for not falling for all that liberal pro Ukraine propaganda.
The difference between a Russia controlled oligarchy and a western oligarchy wasn’t/isn’t worth killing all those poor Ukrainian (and Russian) sods.
Eh… Just because I recognize class war when I see it doesn’t mean I don’t support Ukraine’s right to independence.
It was the Russian oligarchs who started the war and should receive the lion’s share of blame for the deaths of both Ukrainian and Russian civilians. Russia is clearly a more hierarchical and violent government than just about any nation in the world, and I won’t strip away the Ukrainian people’s autonomy and right to choose the future they will.
Based
Sorry, but as soon as you start blaming one imperialist more that the other, you’re pack, playing the imperialists’ games.
Is Putin a horrible fascist? Yes. Am I trusting the media that Ukraine wants to be a liberal paradise where everyone is free to do and say what they want, as long as they win this proxy war of Europe/the US? Nope.
Sorry, but as soon as you start blaming one imperialist more that the other, you’re pack, playing the imperialists’ games.
You are doing the same by capitulating to a fascist invasion without regard to the people being invaded…
Is Putin a horrible fascist? Yes.
But apparently not horrible enough to validate self defense?
Am I trusting the media that Ukraine wants to be a liberal paradise where everyone is free to do and say what they want
What the media says is irrelevant to the nature of the conflict. A sovereign nation is defending itself versus a fascist invasion.
long as they win this proxy war of Europe/the US? Nope.
Ahh, so Ukrainians have no autonomy or right to fight against an invasion? If Ukrainians were solely puppets of the US and Western Europe they wouldn’t be willing to lay their lives down for their country, nor could they have ever defended themselves against such a larger and more well equipped foe. They would have fallen to the initial invasion, just as Russia initially thought was going to happen.
The cognitive dissonance required to attack “the media” while regurgitating pro Russian media is astounding. I really wonder if you are purposely being obtuse for propaganda purposes, or if you are just such a contrarian you actually believe the nonsense that you amplify.
Yeah I don’t like the government of Palestine. In fact I think they absolutely should fall. Israel’s government on the other hand is generally more in line to it’s citizens with what I believe. Israel is still in the wrong and committing genocide. I don’t have to like you to acknowledge your right to self defense
Especially considering he’s claiming to be an anarchist…
When have you known an anarchist to capitulate to a country they describe as fascist?
Sorry, I’m not nationalist enough for this discussion. I don’t agree to the abstraction that Ukraine is “defending itself”. The Ukrainian state is forcing it’s male population to die for national interest.
All that stuff about sovereign nations doesn’t sound much like “no war but class war” to me.
When have I been “regurgitating pro Russian media”? Simply because I don’t buy NATO’s narrative about being a “defensive organization”?
Sorry, I’m not nationalist enough for this discussion
Lol, you don’t believe in sovereignty, the right to self rule, or even in a group of people being able to defend against a group of people that you proclaimed to be fascist?
Sounds like you just like fascist.
the abstraction that Ukraine is “defending itself”
What exactly is abstract about people taking up arms to defend their families and loved ones?
The Ukrainian state is forcing it’s male population to die for national interest.
Or maybe a people are defending themselves against a fascist invasion? I don’t think the people of Ukraine really have a high opinion of their own government or the US in general, but they seem to be willing to fight against fascist.
Like I said, if they were being forced en masse to fight against their will they would just be surrendering. You are once again repeating Russian propaganda.
sovereign nations doesn’t sound much like “no war but class war” to me.
Sovereignty in the face of imperialist attempting to subjegate a people isn’t class war? Again, are you really that stupid?
If so what would be your problem with NATO actually invading Russia?
When have I been “regurgitating pro Russian media”? Simply because I don’t buy NATO’s narrative about being a “defensive organization”?
Lol, right there… The idea that NATO is some diabolical decades long plan to destroy Russia is ridiculous considering that Russia was part of a NATO joint council and wanted to join up until the late 2000s.
Russia only started spreading that idea when post Soviet states started to join because Russia was funding civil strife in those nations, notably Georgia. Until Russia started funding breakaway territories in their neighbors country’s NATO was nothing but a forum for the US to sell their arms.
You are obviously not arguing in good faith, or are just incredibly stupid. Judging by your other post, it’s looking like you’re just an accelerationist …so incredibly stupid it is.
I have them tagged as a foreign wedge driver fwiw.
They indeed do argue in bad faith.
Lol, you don’t believe in sovereignty, the right to self rule, or even in a group of people being able to defend against a group of people that you proclaimed to be fascist?
I don’t take the interest of the people living in Ukraine as the same as the Ukrainian state. Which sovereign? The people, who supposedly is “the sovereign” or the system of power ruling over a liberal nationalist state with very strong repression on (leftist) activists.
Sounds like you just like fascist.
Please. This should be beneath you.
What exactly is abstract about people taking up arms to defend their families and loved ones?
You’re talking about people and families, not about “Ukraine”. You can use that abstraction, but I don’t agree with the premise of that abstraction. I’d rather not subjectivize the state.
I am an anarchist. I would like to separate the power structure from the containing entities (i.e.: I disagree with the common understanding of the purpose of the state).
Or maybe a people are defending themselves against a fascist invasion? I don’t think the people of Ukraine really have a high opinion of their own government or the US in general, but they seem to be willing to fight against fascist.
The cis-men (and some trans women) were drafted. You’re talking about the power structure again. There may be a lot of voluntaries, but derserters are not tolerated.
Like I said, if they were being forced en masse to fight against their will they would just be surrendering. You are once again repeating Russian propaganda.
A part of them literally are forced. I didn’t say anything about “en masse”.
Do you think that Russia is the only actor spreading propaganda? O.o It’s even working in Europe: All of Germany (and I think France?) is incredibly hyped for militarization!
Sovereignty in the face of imperialist attempting to subjegate a people isn’t class war? Again, are you really that stupid?
You probably won’t believe me, but I condemn any imperialism. Not just the one done by the “bad guys”.
You are literally talking about a war between sovereigns. Are you trying to explain to me that war between sovereigns is actually class war? Was WW1 only a long and (mostly) failed proletarian revolution to you? Would you have been on the side of the SPD when they agreed to the war bond in 1914?
If so what would be your problem with NATO actually invading Russia?
… Would that be ok with you? / am not the one in the camp of “international law” and that borders may not be drawn by the sword.
I’d protest, too. Because I don’t like either colonialism. I can condemn both Israel and Hamas, too.
You didn’t specify much on the interest why NATO would do such a thing, so I can’t properly get into your scenario.
Lol, right there… The idea that NATO is some diabolical decades long plan to destroy Russia is ridiculous considering that Russia was part of a NATO joint council and wanted to join up until the late 2000s.
You’re strawmanning me. I implied that NATO is an imperialist instrument. It’s an association of states to conduct war. Do you even have a proper definition of “Imperialism” that’s not on the level of a Star Wars fan podcast?
NATO was nothing but a forum for the US to sell their arms
May I remind you that this discussion started with “no war but class war”. Who profited from these deals? Do you think there is such a thing as a “stable arms economy”? On the planet where the people stating that there’s no such thing as infinite growth on a finite planet are the communist lunatics? O.o
You are obviously not arguing in good faith, or are just incredibly stupid. Judging by your other post, it’s looking like you’re just an accelerationist …so incredibly stupid it is.
I think it’s a shame that you feel obliged to steep to these lows. Feel free to not reply, if it upsets you that much.
When? Slowly and Incrementally since at least 69, probably earlier.
Indeed, it can be tricky. I think the “all out war against the freedom of the masses” could be traced back at least to the Colorado Labor Wars. It certainly kicked up a notch once the URSS formed, too.
Holodomordor
Alright, let’s have fun with our pain. Who is gollum and what are we casting into the fires of Mt doom in this analogy?
I don’t know who would make for a good Gollum, but as for what goes into Mt doom, everything, the whole planet, straight into the volcano.
Sorrowful upvote.
