No, it’s an odd one because you can do pretty much every quest for both sides right up until the end, and then it just goes “pick one and kill the other”.
Kind of robs the game of a satisfying conclusion, but at the same time is like real life in that there’s very rarely a perfect choice. You could always abstain and not do it of course.
I sided with the filthy Imperials, mostly because I couldn’t really think of any of them I hated, while Ulfric’s second-in-command rubbed me up the wrong way.
Imperial was really the only way to go. The stormcloaks winning would only result in them being wiped out by the thalmor anyway. The imperials were bending the knee just enough to survive and maybe have a chance at freedom in the future.
Sadly no, and that’s a real problem because as racist as the Stormcloaks are… They do seem to be the lesser evil given that the Empire is actively working with the Thalmor and will even force changes to major world religions just to appease them, and the Thalmor are far FAR more bigoted than the Stormcloaks, going full mask off on wanting to enslave anyone who they can’t genocide away.
The Stormcloaks do not like foreigners in their country and if you’re an Argonian or an Elf they REALLY don’t like you… But their main point, that the Thalmor want to criminalize their very culture and kill them are, is valid, if it wasn’t then the Stormcloaks would be the clear villain.
I kinda wish the Thalmor weren’t part of the plot, because the twist of the underdog rebel group being evil and the big scary empire being good is actually a genius subversion of expectation.
Edit: I want to underline the whole “The Empire bans aspects of major world religions because the Thalmor told them to.” part, because I feel like it’s easy to overlook that as a big detail. In real life, it’s still fucked up, but at the end of the day “So what, customs change over time and it’s not THAT big a deal.”
But this is a Fantasy setting where the reason for the major religion being major is because you can literally prove it, and even go to the Nord afterlife and meet Talos, the guy they banned the worship of, and find he does live up to what the good book says about him.
Meaning it’s less “Tone down the religion because aspects of your practices are offensive to elves”, and more akin to “We will kill anyone who acknowledges the Law of Gravity.”
Not choosing is what the Thalmor want. Reading the notes in their embassy makes it clear that they want the war to drag on as long as possible since it weakens both the Empire and Skyrim, improving the Dominion’s odds of victory in the next war. Any resolution to the civil war is less bad than allowing it to continue. There is no good option, just ones you can live with and ones you can’t.
True, but it means that ultimately at the end of the day the Stormcloaks are the only rational choice. The Empire doesn’t give a shit about Skyrim, only about appeasing the Thalmor, the fact that they do so reluctantly isn’t good enough.
The Empire was content to cut my head off without a trial or even knowing my charges if any existed to begin with.
What bad do we see the Stormcloaks do exactly, a bit of racism? Running some Argonian/Dark Elf Ghettos? That’s horrible and I won’t deny that it is, but the people I see killing unjustly are the Empire, and they’re largely doing it because someone’s honoring Skyrim’s Customs (Roggvir comes to mind) or because they happened to be in the proximity of the Stormcloaks.
Again, I hate apologizing for Ulfric, (Especially when I usually play a Khajit or a Bosmer meaning I’m a target of their bigotry) especially with how depressing, crazy, and bigoted Windhelm is (It’s the biggest downer town in the whole game), but the only people I’m seeing actually take lives in the name of supremacey, are the Thalmor, and the Empire when it acts on behalf of the Thalmor.
Now if there were a “Yes-Man” option like New Vegas where I told the Empire to fuck off (btw, it’s the Blades, people from the Empire, that tell you to kill Party Snacks at the end of the game, while the Greybeards, people of Skyrim, who acknowledge that’s a horrible idea and will never forgive you if you even think about it), and told the Argonian Dock workers “You have nothing to lose but your chains my comrades!”
I’d take it everytime.
God even in my power-fantasy I’m a slave to Lesser Evilism. I hate everything.
While it’s bad that the Empire basically outlawed a major deity due to losing so bad to the Thalmor, I still find them the correct choice to pick during the civil war questline due to them trying to work against the Thalmor and build up their strength for a counterattack, so to speak.
What the Thalmor wants in game is for the civil war to drag on and be a drain on the Empire’s resources, however a Stormcloak victory is also acceptable to them due to Ulfric being a useful idiot and that the Empire’s power would wane and be easier to conquer later (y’know, divide and conquer).
And Legate Rikka, one of the higher ranking members of the Legion, worships Talos and prays over Ulfric’s body when you kill him. So it’s more of a case of banning Talos worship but not fully enforcing the law.
Yeah, the Empire really only enforces the ban while the Thalmor are looking. Elisif is another Talos worshiper and she’s their choice for ruler of the province.
Is there “yes man” story line like it was in fallout new vegas?
No, it’s an odd one because you can do pretty much every quest for both sides right up until the end, and then it just goes “pick one and kill the other”.
Kind of robs the game of a satisfying conclusion, but at the same time is like real life in that there’s very rarely a perfect choice. You could always abstain and not do it of course.
I sided with the filthy Imperials, mostly because I couldn’t really think of any of them I hated, while Ulfric’s second-in-command rubbed me up the wrong way.
Imperial was really the only way to go. The stormcloaks winning would only result in them being wiped out by the thalmor anyway. The imperials were bending the knee just enough to survive and maybe have a chance at freedom in the future.
Sadly no, and that’s a real problem because as racist as the Stormcloaks are… They do seem to be the lesser evil given that the Empire is actively working with the Thalmor and will even force changes to major world religions just to appease them, and the Thalmor are far FAR more bigoted than the Stormcloaks, going full mask off on wanting to enslave anyone who they can’t genocide away.
The Stormcloaks do not like foreigners in their country and if you’re an Argonian or an Elf they REALLY don’t like you… But their main point, that the Thalmor want to criminalize their very culture and kill them are, is valid, if it wasn’t then the Stormcloaks would be the clear villain.
I kinda wish the Thalmor weren’t part of the plot, because the twist of the underdog rebel group being evil and the big scary empire being good is actually a genius subversion of expectation.
Edit: I want to underline the whole “The Empire bans aspects of major world religions because the Thalmor told them to.” part, because I feel like it’s easy to overlook that as a big detail. In real life, it’s still fucked up, but at the end of the day “So what, customs change over time and it’s not THAT big a deal.”
But this is a Fantasy setting where the reason for the major religion being major is because you can literally prove it, and even go to the Nord afterlife and meet Talos, the guy they banned the worship of, and find he does live up to what the good book says about him.
Meaning it’s less “Tone down the religion because aspects of your practices are offensive to elves”, and more akin to “We will kill anyone who acknowledges the Law of Gravity.”
A strange game. The only moral move is not to choose.
Not choosing is what the Thalmor want. Reading the notes in their embassy makes it clear that they want the war to drag on as long as possible since it weakens both the Empire and Skyrim, improving the Dominion’s odds of victory in the next war. Any resolution to the civil war is less bad than allowing it to continue. There is no good option, just ones you can live with and ones you can’t.
I was just making a War Games reference
Removing the Thalmor would make Skyrim a much less nuanced game, it’s better off for not having easy moral choices.
True, but it means that ultimately at the end of the day the Stormcloaks are the only rational choice. The Empire doesn’t give a shit about Skyrim, only about appeasing the Thalmor, the fact that they do so reluctantly isn’t good enough.
The Empire was content to cut my head off without a trial or even knowing my charges if any existed to begin with.
What bad do we see the Stormcloaks do exactly, a bit of racism? Running some Argonian/Dark Elf Ghettos? That’s horrible and I won’t deny that it is, but the people I see killing unjustly are the Empire, and they’re largely doing it because someone’s honoring Skyrim’s Customs (Roggvir comes to mind) or because they happened to be in the proximity of the Stormcloaks.
Again, I hate apologizing for Ulfric, (Especially when I usually play a Khajit or a Bosmer meaning I’m a target of their bigotry) especially with how depressing, crazy, and bigoted Windhelm is (It’s the biggest downer town in the whole game), but the only people I’m seeing actually take lives in the name of supremacey, are the Thalmor, and the Empire when it acts on behalf of the Thalmor.
Now if there were a “Yes-Man” option like New Vegas where I told the Empire to fuck off (btw, it’s the Blades, people from the Empire, that tell you to kill Party Snacks at the end of the game, while the Greybeards, people of Skyrim, who acknowledge that’s a horrible idea and will never forgive you if you even think about it), and told the Argonian Dock workers “You have nothing to lose but your chains my comrades!”
I’d take it everytime.
God even in my power-fantasy I’m a slave to Lesser Evilism. I hate everything.
While it’s bad that the Empire basically outlawed a major deity due to losing so bad to the Thalmor, I still find them the correct choice to pick during the civil war questline due to them trying to work against the Thalmor and build up their strength for a counterattack, so to speak.
What the Thalmor wants in game is for the civil war to drag on and be a drain on the Empire’s resources, however a Stormcloak victory is also acceptable to them due to Ulfric being a useful idiot and that the Empire’s power would wane and be easier to conquer later (y’know, divide and conquer).
And Legate Rikka, one of the higher ranking members of the Legion, worships Talos and prays over Ulfric’s body when you kill him. So it’s more of a case of banning Talos worship but not fully enforcing the law.
Yeah, the Empire really only enforces the ban while the Thalmor are looking. Elisif is another Talos worshiper and she’s their choice for ruler of the province.