Exclusive analysis finds the rate of maternal deaths in Texas increased 56% from 2019 to 2022, compared with just 11% nationwide during the same time period.
You risk your own and others situational awareness when you paint everything as a race issue.
I grew up in Texas in a deep red county.
They believe abortion is literally the same as killing a healthy 2 year old. Straight up. THAT is the basis for their opposition to abortion, plain and simple.
You are dumbing down the discourse by being so focused on race.
In a country notorious for it’s systemic and institutionalized racism, you grew up in a section that votes predominantly for the party that is notoriously racist ( In general, not in comparison to any other party ) and would claim that race has no part in a decision that is known to have racial divides in applicability.
That might be the greatest feat of mental gymnastics i’ve ever seen, truly.
On the off-chance you genuinely mean what you say:
That you and the people you know don’t care about race is laudable, but it doesn’t seem to be broadly applicable to the rest of the state or country ( and in the case of republicans their party )
These are largely white people voting to stop their largely white neighbors from getting abortions.
Are you under the impression their position toward abortion would be different if the entire state or country were 100% white? I assure you it would not be. And if that’s true, it cannot be based on race.
What’s more is this argument that their position on abortion is informed by statistics is laughable. These are low information voters. You seriously think they even know the stats? Why in the world would anyone think that?
Are you under the impression their position toward abortion would be different if the entire state or country were 100% white? I assure you it would not be. And if that’s true, it cannot be based on race.
I’ve no idea, all i was stating is that dismissing race as a part of the decision making process (consciously or unconsciously) in a place known for outcomes based on race could be considered dumbing down the argument.
What’s more is this argument that their position on abortion is informed by statistics is laughable. These are low information voters. You seriously think they even know the stats? Why in the world would anyone think that?
Entirely laughable, which is why nobody has claimed this.
I was saying these people are what makes up the statistics.
As an entirely made up example:
“10% of the population don’t like the taste of potatoes” doesn’t mean 10% of the population base their decisions about eating fries on reading the statistics.
claims such as “All the people i know like potatoes , so potato preference can’t possibly be related to the amount of fries eaten” just doesnt make any sense.
and to be clear I’m not claiming all positions are race based, just that it’s enough of a factor that pretending it doesn’t have any impact at all is some gold medal mental gymnastics.
I think knowing that these voters base their position on abortion on the belief that it is murder hurts your position so it’s better not to answer. Or you just don’t know them that well and really have no idea.
Entirely laughable, which is why nobody has claimed this.
The argument that these voters’ position on abortion (and therefore their votes) are based on race necessarily requires that they are aware of the statistics. If the claim is they vote this way because it disproportionately harms minorities, how do they know it disproportionately harms minorities?
I think knowing that these voters base their position on abortion on the belief that it is murder hurts your position so it’s better not to answer. Or you just don’t know them that well and really have no idea.
I mean, i’ve no idea because it’s never happened, you also have no idea.
You can assure me it’s true all you want, your assurances mean nothing to me if they don’t make any sense.
The argument that these voters’ position on abortion (and therefore their votes) are based on race necessarily requires that they are aware of the statistics.
It does not, at all.
A decision can easily be based on a belief, an understanding of relevant statistical values isn’t required.
If the claim is they vote this way because it disproportionately harms minorities, how do they know it disproportionately harms minorities?
That’s not the claim, the claim is “Some people vote this way , wholly or partially because they think it disproportionately harms minorities”
They probably don’t know , they may think it does, or hope it does, or not care at all either way.
There are of course people who are voting solely on their opinion of “baby murder is bad”, nobody is or has been arguing otherwise.
You are arguing race isn’t a factor, i am arguing that that’s an impossible position to defend and no “All the people i know aren’t racist” doesn’t count as a valid defense.
It’s both. Unfortunately, a lot of people are incredibly racist without even knowing that they are racists. They are just doing whatever they’ve always been doing, “and now, all of a sudden, that’s racist.” It’s like when people are defending slavery because it was “normal at the time.” It was still racist! It is now and it was then.
You’re getting down voted, but you’re right. The actual lawmakers are probably more racially motivated. But based on my experience growing up in Alabama, most of the regular “pro-life” voters seem motivated by a genuine belief that abortion is murder.
Until they need an abortion. Then they’re fine with it. Ask anyone who works at an abortion clinic how many times people out there protesting come in for abortions
I could see the race thing being more true for the politicians but even then I think it’s less of a thing than most people on Lemmy think.
If we stop to think about it a moment I think that becomes clear.
Do we think Ted Cruz would rather have a black Republican neighbor or a white Democrat? I truly think he’d rather have a black Republican neighbor. I believe the same is true for everyone I grew up with in Texas.
IF we accept that (big if, admittedly) it can’t be a race thing. It would have to extend to a cultural thing.
Note that I didn’t say racism didn’t exist anymore. I said it wasn’t the driving principle behind their position on abortion. And that hyper fixation on race does a disservice to them and others by often missing the point.
I would also say “color blindness” isn’t racism, if that’s what you meant. Maybe I misunderstood you?
I largely agree with Coleman Hughes on this point but I frankly don’t expect anyone here to honestly engage with his position.
Well, I’ve already explained exactly why it’s a continuation of native American genocide and how race is 100% a driver for these organizations en masse, even though other races are also affected.
It’s not a hyperfixation on race to acknowledge racial issues and address them.
I guessed you were from an area with colorblindness as it’s main racism, I am as well. That’s because you’re in an area that is still colonizing land from Natives, so it’s important to reduce their claims. One way to do this is to erase their heritage and ethnicity by forcing language, names, holidays, foods, etc that aren’t part of their history. Suppressing claims of racism automatically is colorblindness and part of how colorblindness is racist.
Another form of racism placed onto Native Indian people is color-blind racism. This form of racism rationalizes “racial inequality as the outcome of nonracial dynamics” (Robertson 120). Color-blind racism takes the standards created by the dominant discourse and applies them to all ethnic groups, putting them on an even level plain field without recognizing historical or social context of each group. Therefore, according to color blind racism, the effects of casualties and stereotypical of Native Indians such as alcoholism, poverty, etc. is essentially their fault and they should be the ones to start change. However, these the casualties of Native Indian culture was changed by racial oppression implemented by the dominant discourse. Therefore, Native Indians cannot be the ones to change of societal perception when they were not the ones to implement it.
The pressure to assimilate and narrow the gaps in our proximity to Whiteness goes hand and hand with so-called “color blindness,” or claiming not to see race. At best, this ideology is misguided because it’s predicated on the false assumption that if we do not talk about or acknowledge race and racism, then these issues will go away. It should go without saying that this is asinine, yet so many well-meaning White people wear their alleged color blindness as a badge of honor.
At worst, it is a White supremacist tool used to intentionally gaslight BIPOC and give White people a justification for turning away from the experiences and voices of BIPOC. Color blindness requires BIPOC to “grin and bear” everyday instances of racism. We are expected to do this all in the name of making White people more comfortable with benefitting from their ancestors’ ill-gotten gains, as well as current inequalities. This is the “polite” brand of racism that prioritizes White supremacist notions of decorum, comfort, and acceptable forms of social expression over dismantling racism and alleviating the suffering that it causes.
No, you’re missing pieces of the puzzle. Modern day abortion bans are a piece of legal child trafficking via adoptions.
Latina girl tries to get an abortion. She shows up at a fake abortion clinic because she’s ESL and those clinics are deceitful. She gets guilt tripped into giving her baby up for adoption.
The fake abortion clinic just so conveniently works with an adoption center that only adopts out to Christian families that can pay them about $20k-$40k for a kid. This money doesn’t go to the birth mother. Most of these adopting families are white.
Then these Christian organizations go on to lobby for less social safety nets, less abortion access, less birth control access and education, thus driving more desperate girls to their clinics.
Race plays a part - this is continued genocide happening primarily against Native American Latinos who lack the same legal protections as Native Americans from here in the US, even though those borders didn’t exist before we put them there. Those are very similar groups of people who share some ancestry and used to trade with each other.
Yes other races are damaged by this too. It’s just not in the same way. It’s okay to be intersectional instead of just giving up thinking about race altogether.
Almost everyone supports abortion in rapes cases and risk to life cases - it is very rare that someone literally thinks it’s the same as murdering a toddler if you actually ask them about those “fringe” cases.
It’s more that people are reactionary and don’t want to actually think and so they just parrot whatever is comfortable to them.
You risk your own and others situational awareness when you paint everything as a race issue.
I grew up in Texas in a deep red county.
They believe abortion is literally the same as killing a healthy 2 year old. Straight up. THAT is the basis for their opposition to abortion, plain and simple.
You are dumbing down the discourse by being so focused on race.
“This stops them from killing babies” and “This also predominantly affects the group I don’t like” aren’t mutually exclusive ideas
They literally don’t care about skin color here. Not one iota. Murder is murder and this is that (to them).
In a country notorious for it’s systemic and institutionalized racism, you grew up in a section that votes predominantly for the party that is notoriously racist ( In general, not in comparison to any other party ) and would claim that race has no part in a decision that is known to have racial divides in applicability.
That might be the greatest feat of mental gymnastics i’ve ever seen, truly.
On the off-chance you genuinely mean what you say:
That you and the people you know don’t care about race is laudable, but it doesn’t seem to be broadly applicable to the rest of the state or country ( and in the case of republicans their party )
This shouldn’t be hard to believe.
These are largely white people voting to stop their largely white neighbors from getting abortions.
Are you under the impression their position toward abortion would be different if the entire state or country were 100% white? I assure you it would not be. And if that’s true, it cannot be based on race.
What’s more is this argument that their position on abortion is informed by statistics is laughable. These are low information voters. You seriously think they even know the stats? Why in the world would anyone think that?
I’ve no idea, all i was stating is that dismissing race as a part of the decision making process (consciously or unconsciously) in a place known for outcomes based on race could be considered dumbing down the argument.
Entirely laughable, which is why nobody has claimed this.
I was saying these people are what makes up the statistics.
As an entirely made up example:
“10% of the population don’t like the taste of potatoes” doesn’t mean 10% of the population base their decisions about eating fries on reading the statistics.
claims such as “All the people i know like potatoes , so potato preference can’t possibly be related to the amount of fries eaten” just doesnt make any sense.
and to be clear I’m not claiming all positions are race based, just that it’s enough of a factor that pretending it doesn’t have any impact at all is some gold medal mental gymnastics.
I think knowing that these voters base their position on abortion on the belief that it is murder hurts your position so it’s better not to answer. Or you just don’t know them that well and really have no idea.
The argument that these voters’ position on abortion (and therefore their votes) are based on race necessarily requires that they are aware of the statistics. If the claim is they vote this way because it disproportionately harms minorities, how do they know it disproportionately harms minorities?
But I’m glad we agree that they do not know that.
I mean, i’ve no idea because it’s never happened, you also have no idea.
You can assure me it’s true all you want, your assurances mean nothing to me if they don’t make any sense.
It does not, at all.
A decision can easily be based on a belief, an understanding of relevant statistical values isn’t required.
That’s not the claim, the claim is “Some people vote this way , wholly or partially because they think it disproportionately harms minorities”
They probably don’t know , they may think it does, or hope it does, or not care at all either way.
There are of course people who are voting solely on their opinion of “baby murder is bad”, nobody is or has been arguing otherwise.
You are arguing race isn’t a factor, i am arguing that that’s an impossible position to defend and no “All the people i know aren’t racist” doesn’t count as a valid defense.
Common ground is a good basis for understanding.
It’s both. Unfortunately, a lot of people are incredibly racist without even knowing that they are racists. They are just doing whatever they’ve always been doing, “and now, all of a sudden, that’s racist.” It’s like when people are defending slavery because it was “normal at the time.” It was still racist! It is now and it was then.
You’re getting down voted, but you’re right. The actual lawmakers are probably more racially motivated. But based on my experience growing up in Alabama, most of the regular “pro-life” voters seem motivated by a genuine belief that abortion is murder.
Until they need an abortion. Then they’re fine with it. Ask anyone who works at an abortion clinic how many times people out there protesting come in for abortions
Yes because they don’t actually believe that they are killing a living human. That’s why they will get it done for themselves or their mistresses.
I could see the race thing being more true for the politicians but even then I think it’s less of a thing than most people on Lemmy think.
If we stop to think about it a moment I think that becomes clear.
Do we think Ted Cruz would rather have a black Republican neighbor or a white Democrat? I truly think he’d rather have a black Republican neighbor. I believe the same is true for everyone I grew up with in Texas.
IF we accept that (big if, admittedly) it can’t be a race thing. It would have to extend to a cultural thing.
Are you from an area that mainly espouses colorblindness as its racism?
A month ago, I was sent a picture of a black lynching by a Nazi. It’s 100% about race for a lot of people.
Note that I didn’t say racism didn’t exist anymore. I said it wasn’t the driving principle behind their position on abortion. And that hyper fixation on race does a disservice to them and others by often missing the point.
I would also say “color blindness” isn’t racism, if that’s what you meant. Maybe I misunderstood you?
I largely agree with Coleman Hughes on this point but I frankly don’t expect anyone here to honestly engage with his position.
Well, I’ve already explained exactly why it’s a continuation of native American genocide and how race is 100% a driver for these organizations en masse, even though other races are also affected.
It’s not a hyperfixation on race to acknowledge racial issues and address them.
I guessed you were from an area with colorblindness as it’s main racism, I am as well. That’s because you’re in an area that is still colonizing land from Natives, so it’s important to reduce their claims. One way to do this is to erase their heritage and ethnicity by forcing language, names, holidays, foods, etc that aren’t part of their history. Suppressing claims of racism automatically is colorblindness and part of how colorblindness is racist.
https://www.bartleby.com/essay/Native-Indian-Culture-Color-Blind-Racism-F3YRAC73VU5YW
https://www.pbs.org/education/blog/unlearning-kindness-color-blindness-and-racism
No, you’re missing pieces of the puzzle. Modern day abortion bans are a piece of legal child trafficking via adoptions.
Latina girl tries to get an abortion. She shows up at a fake abortion clinic because she’s ESL and those clinics are deceitful. She gets guilt tripped into giving her baby up for adoption.
The fake abortion clinic just so conveniently works with an adoption center that only adopts out to Christian families that can pay them about $20k-$40k for a kid. This money doesn’t go to the birth mother. Most of these adopting families are white.
Then these Christian organizations go on to lobby for less social safety nets, less abortion access, less birth control access and education, thus driving more desperate girls to their clinics.
Race plays a part - this is continued genocide happening primarily against Native American Latinos who lack the same legal protections as Native Americans from here in the US, even though those borders didn’t exist before we put them there. Those are very similar groups of people who share some ancestry and used to trade with each other.
Yes other races are damaged by this too. It’s just not in the same way. It’s okay to be intersectional instead of just giving up thinking about race altogether.
Here’s an example of one of these adoption agencies: https://christianhomes.com/
Almost everyone supports abortion in rapes cases and risk to life cases - it is very rare that someone literally thinks it’s the same as murdering a toddler if you actually ask them about those “fringe” cases.
It’s more that people are reactionary and don’t want to actually think and so they just parrot whatever is comfortable to them.