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ITT people taking issue with parenting methods not even being advocated for. If you take your children to public places, of course everyone knows they are children, but they still shouldn’t be pulling stuff off racks, running around screaming and licking the windows, or putting hands on other people or children.
You don’t have to yell at them or beat them or anything else, but if they can’t pull themselves together in public then work on it and consider not bringing them to such places. My mom made us all repeat the rules before we left the car (no running, no putting things in the cart without being asked, keep one hand on the cart while we are moving or something like those) and if we didn’t follow the rules we all went back to the car. Simple as that.
Edit: sometimes you gotta go do something and take the kids. If they’re acting feral at least maybe don’t be the parent who looks like they are totally cool with it and just pretend it isn’t happening?
All I want is enough differentiated “adult only” spaces. I won’t say anyone how to raise their kids, just let me be in a space where that parenting is not happening.
I don’t hit my kids, I barely even yell. They’re the most well-behaved kids I know. Almost as though respecting your kids and spending time with them makes them happier? And maybe kids that feel respected act better? It’s a parenting problem. Youth are the future, we the parents decide what that future looks like.
It’s boundaries, expectations and consistancy in consequences if they break the rules.
Yes, teaching kids to behave is far more effective than beating them into compliance. Sure, they have difficulty grasping it in their early years, but with repetition it eventually sinks in like all of the other things we teach them.
There is essentially universal agreement in the field of child psychology that “beating” your child is the wrong approach.
I’ve yet to meet a parent that completely ignores their child in a public venue. In many cultures children are considered to be a part of society / community and so they are given some autonomy to discover the world with their peers. Hyper individualistic Western society is really the odd one out here and Western cultures are the only ones where I’ve seen this take expressed openly. Conclude from that what you will.
A few weeks ago my wife and I were getting breakfast at a local bakery. Inside, a dad had decided that it did not matter that his small child was running around, screaming at the top of his lungs. The little gremlin started trying to steal pastries off other people’s tables and dad stiff didn’t do anything until the staff announced loudly that all unattended children would be reported to CPS.
That kid didn’t need a beating, but that dad sure did.
Agreed, that’s unacceptable.
I mostly agree except for the initial phase of teaching a kid to listen and control themselves. The part of the brain that forces them to sit still and focus doesn’t really develop imo without some fear. I wouldn’t at all advocate for beating your child, but when they are young a little spank sometimes that isn’t that bad seems scary as hell to them. It’s very effective to get them to learn to listen, to stop running around, that sort of thing. After you get past that point you can talk to them, it’s much easier. Also you have to talk to them afterwards so they know you aren’t being mean, but need them to learn to control themselves and not let their emotions take over all the time. If you do it well, you won’t have to do it but a few times. Not intensity, but as little as possible, just so they know that they can’t get away with it. A kid has almost unlimited energy to fight and yell. It’s not good for you, and it’s not good for them. It’s not really normal for an animal to never have any fear. The brain isn’t supposed to work that way. Yet also it’s not good to abuse them obviously. Some people are kind of bad parents and they will use that as an excuse to avoid doing what they should for their kids, like cooking healthy food and stuff. When kids arent eating well or are trapped inside all day they also get restless. That is not the time to be spanking. The one time where spanking is appropriate is simply to make them realize that they can’t just ignore you and walk on you, and that they have to actually talk with you when you are serious. Talking is the part where they learn. They should just learn fear. This will make them depressive and lazy and resentful and psychotic.
This is an area with a ton of debate and I appreciate your insights. I was on the receiving end of corporal punishment growing up and have chosen not continue that cycle. That doesn’t mean that my child will grow up without consequences, which is I think what most posters are frustrated with here.
According to the World Health Organization:
Evidence shows corporal punishment harms children’s physical and mental health, increases behavioural problems over time, and has no positive outcomes.
All corporal punishment, however mild or light, carries an inbuilt risk of escalation. Studies suggest that parents who used corporal punishment are at heightened risk of perpetrating severe maltreatment
Corporal punishment is linked to a range of negative outcomes for children across countries and cultures, including physical and mental ill-health, impaired cognitive and socio-emotional development, poor educational outcomes, increased aggression and perpetration of violence.
There is also evidence that fear based parenting can lead to anxiety, depression, behavioral problems, and poor self-esteem and sows mistrust and emotional distance between parent and child. I can personally attest to experiencing quite a few of these in relation to corporal punishment.
Now it sounds like you are using fear judiciously and to each their own. But I am determined to find another way, while also making consequences as clear as possible. Age 1 to 3 is difficult for everyone since the child is mobile and exploratory but has very little reasoning capabilities.
I am similar, I grew up with a great deal of that and I barely ever use it for my kids. I actually have a fair bit of trauma and PTSD because my father was an alcoholic and very mean. I never use it anymore I did a little when they were toddlers to get them to do stuff like not pee in the bed, to not leave trash laying around, to not be disrespectful. I had a severe concussion when I was raising them in that phase and I couldn’t handle the yelling because it would trigger massive migraines. I understand most people who use it do ruin their kids with it, and most people who use it are really trashy parents who are arrogant and have bad morality, but really the point in trying to make is that it’s very healthy for a kid to learn how to deal with the emotion of fear and to experience it a bit. This is something the modern world doesn’t realize as much. It helps them to focus. It’s a very narrow window of course. Fear is a strong work and don’t want you to think that I mean your kid should be terrified of you, but they should learn to have respect to feel a bit of consequences to get past that basic part where their higher mind can take control. Their fear needs to be able to calm their mind. I think of it as two pillars that lean against each other creating an arch, your positive and negative emotions. That is a really complicated way of saying, the only thing spanking is good for, is to teach a kid to stop, think, and listen, anything beyond that is abuse imo. You really need to talk to them and explain, not just preach, but back and forth about why something is right or wrong. Tell them about your life and what you have to deal with. Ask them what they think. Ask them how they feel about it. Let them be honest, let them have autonomy where you can. Being safe and respectful is important but beyond that you don’t own your child and your child doesn’t need to be molded by you as a parent. They need to bloom into their own type of flower. That is what actually makes them a highly motivated person.
It works good for me because I completely support my kids autonomy. I want them to have their own style, their own desires, their own preferences, I want them to be themselves. I don’t police their sexuality or what video games or movies they can watch. What clothes they can buy. I do forbid them from some things of course. Hanging out with people who do drugs is one example. I will talk to them about these things in an adult fashion. I will challenge them and ask them questions about why they are doing something, and ask them to tell me how it makes people around them feel, how it makes them feel. It’s not that they should live their life to please other people, not at all, but to be aware of how their actions affect others. To be aware of other people’s pain and limitations. Talk is best, a respectful adult conversation as equals. A conversation as a friend.
You never want to use physical punishment anymore then you have to, because your child will come to see the world through the lens of a victim. They will never really develop an ability to take pride in themselves and stand up for themselves and to chase their own dreams. Survival becomes their only true friend when they learn to hide themselves from the world.
Growing up in the south I have seen the effects of extensive physical punishment. People lose their personality, their ability to be creative. They lose the ability to understand what is actually right and wrong. They lose the ability to have courage, to stand up for themselves and others. They bottle up their anger for years and delude themselves into thinking they are a tough guy like how fascists think. They become lazy and unmotivated. They envy or despise people who have anything they don’t have. They don’t understand that value does not come from pain or suffering, it comes from creation. Other cultures have their flaws as well. They are also nice and friendly people usually and love to help each other. It’s just the one I’m most familiar with until I can leave. I’m trying to get out of the south because I’m trans and they are getting dumber by the day. Although a large amount of them are very nice. Their politicians know how to manipulate them and they are going to try to ruin this place even more than it is. Even if most Republicans are decent people their politicians are trash. Almost everyone in the south buys into the political propaganda fully and the politicians are really stupid and they are going to cause horrible things to happen in these states.
Obviously the solution is to beat them senseless like my parents did, so they can later wonder what they did to deserve that…
Lots of people have procreated that really shouldn’t have, unfortunately.
People say that having kids it’s hard. It’s not. It’s literally the easiest thing we can do. Even the most stupid people on the planet can, and do, have kids.
And everyone else is the asshole for wanting you to control your petulant, loud, germy, and annoying little bundle of joy.
[Someone’s kid yells]
The internet: “You should be sterile.”
I swear, Americans are obsessed with the idea that kids need a beating once in a while. That would get you arrested where I am from.
I think people are jumping to the beating part but ignoring the rest. The thought process usually goes like “wow, my parents would’ve spanked me for doing that… but they’re not doing anything!”
It’s not about the beating. It’s about the kid being allowed to do whatever without any action from the parent. Because that’s usually how it goes when a kid is being a nuisance.
I need to move there. We have never spanked our kids and they behave no worse than any other kids, and better than many.
Louis C.K. may be a bit of a creep, but one thing he said really resonates with me. Children are the only people we’re legally allowed to hit (in the U.S.). They are some of our most vulnerable people and we hit them. They rely on us to protect them, and we hit them. Fuck us for hitting our tiny, vulnerable babies. My wife wasn’t totally opposed to spanking before we had kids, but then we had kids and she can’t imagine hitting them. She’s a wonderful human.
Shit take
Lemmy: lol my ADHD is so quirky!
Also Lemmy: Children should be seen and not heard.
Can we please leave TikTok face on TikTok? I come here specifically to escape the brain rot.
boy are you in the wrong place
I’m talking about a specific level of brain rot mind you, I can accept the lower level that is typical of Lemmy meme communities but not quite corporate social network levels.
brainrot has levels now?
If you’re a brainrot connoisseur like them you have to differentiate everything.
it has layers, like an onion
Always had levels
I’m on level 69
nice
nice
🤣 it’s amazing how you people actually think you are better.
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Than TikTok? Sure we are. It’s an incredibly low bar. Most everything is better than TikTok.
🤣👌👍
Whatever you need to tell yourself.
“you people”
It’ll never live up to the first, but I want a sequel so bad .
Being a parent is hard af
Being a good one is.
I would argue that being a bad one even has its challenges.
even being a bad parent can be very tough
Doesn’t help that people judge 2 year old parents when their child is crying. Not like they could hold a debate with someone who can not comprehend the concept of self control.
2 year olds should really not be parents.
For real, clearly they never had to explain to a 4 year old why they could not run around with crayons stuffed in their nose.
People also don’t get how different children are and how much neuro diversity is out there. Comments below say to remove the child from the venue or keep them at home. It’s been years and I’ve hardly left the house for social enjoyment. My kid finally gets excited about going to the cinema, so we go,and he ends up having difficulty regulating himself there…I guess I better scoop him up and fuck off back to the cave we crawled out of.
Managing children is difficult, and if a child is dedicated to their course of action, then you can’t win. You can never win a battle of wills against a young child. A child has infinite energy, infinite time and a single minded focus. They’ve got nowhere else to be nothing better to do.
My kid finally gets excited about going to the cinema, so we go,and he ends up having difficulty regulating himself there…I guess I better scoop him up and fuck off back to the cave we crawled out of.
If they are doing something really disruptive like crying for extended periods of time just remove them from the setting for long enough to regulate themselves and go back in. Keeping them in a setting where they can’t regulate themselves for extended periods of time is counterproductive. I stepped out into the hall with my klddo to get away from the loud noise and bright screen so she could get herself under control a lot of times, and eventually she figured out how to regulate herself in those same situations.
Now if people are shitty because the kiddo is doing regular kid things or because they were disruptive for a short period of time then they can go eat a turd.
I don’t even know who does it worse.
People who have absolutely zero experience with children judging
Or the other parents who had a child that gave them no issues from birth. ‘Just politely ask them’ and they will be good. It ‘worked for me’.
if a child is dedicated to their course of action, then you can’t win. You can never win a battle of wills against a young child.
smh
As one of those neurodivergent kids, my mom explicitly laid all the blame on me whenever she felt embarrassed in public. I was removed from activities countless times without any clear understanding of why - all I knew was I wasn’t allowed to do fun things. There was no accommodation for sensory issues, no space provided for me to self-regulate, no understanding that I was having a difficult time and needed support - just labels thrown at me for “being difficult”, as if by merely existing, I was a problem.
Every child deserves to participate in enriching activities regardless of their neurotype. By removing neurodiverse kids (and not returning after they calm down) or outright keeping them away from such events, they may internalize the idea that who they are is not acceptable. Parents, there are resources available today that didn’t exist in the 90s. There is no reason to raise your neurodiverse kid the way we used to be raised. If you don’t know what to do with your kid and you haven’t already done so, get help. Please.
Agree completely. That’s what people don’t see when they’re being judgemental and demand that a child “be sorted and quietened now”. I need time to help my kid self-regulate and adjust and be supported in the environment…but I need the community’s support in tolerating a “loud and disruptive” child for a moment.
100%.
We have a ND kid who has the standard AuDHD diagnosis, and we do our best to allow them to participate in activities, and they’re getting a lot better at self regulation since we’ve been able to get them into therapy/OT/various other things that I did t get a chance to have when I was that young.
It’s hard, but just stopping and explaining things to kids goes so far, even if they can’t internalize it in the moment, those lessons build up and give them the base they need to participate in a world that has no empathy for the ND.
I was always told that I’d be more charitable about this kind of thing once I had kids.
No idea where anyone got that idea. After becoming a parent I’m WAY more judgy about bad parenting.
This is the unfortunate truth. If someone has “easier” children they become even more judgemental of “difficult” children. They take it as a skill issue as if their expert parenting was all that mattered and thus other parents are failures.
If you had that “difficult” child with the set of social circumstances as that family, then you might have struggled too. Withhold that judgement. Most are trying their best. Sometimes you might even see me “doing nothing” about my out of control child…but that’s because I’m trying to regulate myself before I lose my shit; just need a moment.
I understand but also not my problem? If you are too tired to deal with your children maybe keep them at home. If you are going to bring a child to a public place you got to be prepare and willing to educate them. Your children are special bundles of joy for You, and you only. People are not ok in having to deal with an unhinged savage child because parenting is hard. People take the “it takes a village” wrong. Not everyone you see is on your village.
Speaking as a parent, you are correct.
Thank you. Just adding again I’m not agains kids. Just want parents to parent more sometimes.
Your children are special bundles of joy for You, and you only.
Those snotrags are in charge of funding our retirements excuse me!
What retirement?
I’ll be long dead before retirement as they keep raising retirement age far beyond what most people in my family have lived.
They won’t, the go on your nerves now and they won’t fund your retirement.
They’re mad because you’re right and they have to deal with screaming brats all day because they chose to and you didn’t.
exactly. They are mad because it’s NOT about the kids. Kids will be kids and thats why they have PARENTS. the Parents are the fucking lazy people that are “too tired” but keep having children becuase “oh my god it takes a vilage” Fuck off go raise your child
Then, politely, fuck off.
Children are a part of the society that you live in, whether you liked it or not. I don’t know who hurt you, but you were also a child once. You pooped your diapers, you cried, you misbehaved. How your parents have treated you when you did these things has a very direct effect on how you behave and think right now. My guess is they were shitty, it would explain your irrational anger and hatred towards kids.
Misbehaving in public is a necessary step to learning how to behave in the first place. It’s a learning by doing thing. You won’t get your child prepared to act kind, nice, and considerate with other people if you don’t let them meet other people. You cannot teach your kid how to behave on the outside at home. How is that not obvious to you? It is inconvenient, it is annoying, it is hard, and it has to be done so that we don’t have underdeveloped, immature, dysregulated asshole adults a generation’s time from now.
Parents are always obligated to watch for their kids and show them how to behave. This doesn’t mean they can, or should, control their every move, word, reaction, emotion, or behavior. If a 3 year old cries and it is uncomfortable for you, that’s your problem. It is not the child’s or the parent’s duty to shut them up with a gag ball ffs. It is their duty to help them resolve and guide them through their overwhelming emotions. So that they will grow up to be emotionally healthy adults.
Children have an innate need to play. They learn via playing. They learn via trying things out and touching them. They learn to walk and run by walking and running - and falling and failing. They also learn about the world from the world’s reaction. Being met with disdain for solely existing and breathing won’t help them to grow up to be adults with a lot of self worth.
You don’t get to decide who is part of the society and village you live in. You don’t get to cherry pick your neighbors.
You don’t want kids in your village go live in a cave.
Society norms have to be bilateral, and convenient for every member of the society.
One member of society cannot fuck around not expecting to, eventually, find out.
This is why we have laws, norms and social customs. So we can live in a society.
If members of society feel that they cannot longer live next to other members is when society breaks, and, you like it or not, the social pact gets broken.
You cannot force members of a society to live en the minimum common suffering denominator. To lower everyone standards of living to the one provided by the most annoying member of the society. That’s a highway to the society giving the big F to that member.
It should be the contrary, society should try to live to the standard of the less annoyance. To avoid bother the most sensible member of the group.
It’s a everyone loses vs everyone wins situation. We should aim for the later.
You can look around and see that the world is not ok on you imposing your misbihaved child on everyone.
I was once a child, correct, and I couldn’t leave my table in a restaurant, that was not even a question. I had to learn to behave otherwise I would be grounded at home. My father left the table more than once in a restaurant to take my brother to be grounded in the car. And came back once it was understood.
Limits are healthy and if it’s tok hard you can always gibe them to social services or not fucking having them.
Just look around a little. Nobody else cares about you baby or you.
Kid having a meltdown in the Walmart while their mom casually picks out yoga pants
volvoxvsmarla: “look at this fine example of parenting!”
You think the judgment is being leveled at the KIDS? No, no, no… nobody’s judging kids for acting out. They’re kids.
Kids aren’t the problem. Bad parents are the problem.
Judgement is only partially the problem. You are never as full of yourself as a parental figure as before you become one. Neglectful parents should be held accountable, that is not the core of the issue.
What bothers me immensely is the thought that “your kid, not my problem, but actually it is my problem, because I want them to behave differently”. This is like eating your cake and have it too.
The other thing that I find awful is that just existing on the outside (for some families even inside) is so anxiety evoking because of all these judgements. Parents end up micromanaging their kids and berating them for minor things because they are so fucking scared that people will judge them or yell at them for not having a picture perfect child that you can overlook. Children are not allowed to show any childish behavior on the outside. And this is what bothers me so much. You have to constantly choose between supporting your kid and gentle (not neglectful) parenting where you don’t yell or hit and simply being on their side or trying to appeal to the scrutiny of the public eye because it wants perfect order and quiet.
When you go vacationing in a child friendly country (looking at you, Croatia) and you feel supported instead of frowned upon for the exact same behaviors of your kid, because they are just having fun and not destroying anything and just minding their own business while not perfectly sitting still, then you just understand how shitty it is to go every day feeling the cold stare of everyone around who wished children would just die out.
I am a parent. My kid knows that some things aren’t okay to do in public and especially not in the direction of people who are trying to live their own lives. Teaching courtesy is not complicated.
Your third paragraph, from beginning to end, is INSANE and you’re telling on yourself quite a bit there.
Thank you for representing a normal parent reaction here. I too think this user comes off unhinged. It also seems to me like they think all their parenting shortcomings are someone else’s fault. If no one else’s, those people silently suffering in the public spaces they share with their screaming kids.
That’s a lot of anger you’re spitting just because someone doesn’t want to hear screaming children. My siblings and I were never allowed to scream in public.
That person really feels entitled to inflict their children’s bad behavior on everyone else around them.
You were not allowed to but I can guarantee that you were still screaming in public.
Not really. There are kids louder than others. And while there may be some internal aspects to that a lot of that have to do with education. Specially as they grow and education starts becoming more a defining factor.
Hmm my mother says I was quiet and I observed normal amounts of fussiness from my other siblings that was far less than screaming at the top of their lungs. If they had done that, they would have been shushed, comforted, talked to, or taken somewhere else because my parents took responsibility for their own decisions and for what their children did. Instead of pretending it’s hopeless and that whatever impulse we had was fine.
Yes, I have a lot of anger for people who meet the most vulnerable parts of our society with hostility. I have an immense anger for people who don’t think these vulnerable people in the making have a place in society.
Congratulations on not being allowed to scream in public, ever. Did you good. Your parents had shitty standards and now you want to enforce these on other children so that they will also grow up and hate children. Great idea.
We are not talking about kids babe, we are talking about YOU that is too tired to educate
What you don’t understand (or pretend not to) is that you’re the one being judged, not the kids. It seems obvious from this chain that your kids are out of control and you get judged for it. I can think of no other reason you’d act this way.
I think the point of contention is that the user you debate is under the (right) assumption that when a child cries in public, this is just a small snapshot out of all the time the parents took them to any public place. A child crying is not a bug, it’s an inherent feature. They sometimes just do that, they don’t even know themselves, so it’s not the parents fault that their mini-human isn’t behaving like a fucking Gucci bag. Everything volvoxvsmarla said is true, children learn through trial an error and yes, you need to sometimes take the brunt of this process, I’m sorry little one. When children don’t learn how to behave in (for example) supermarkets because you banned them, then you get teenagers who didn’t learn to behave. You can’t pass the problem on forever. I’m a teacher and it really fucking shows when kids never learned how to exist in a public place.
BTW., this is not an excuse for parents who evidently don’t give a fuck or even worse, motivate their children to be brats so they entertain themselves. Scum of the earth. But it’s perfectly possible for parents to try their hardest and still fail sometimes.
No one is saying kids shouldn’t be allowed in public. They’re saying if your kid is losing their shit in a restaurant, remove them from the restaurant until they are done losing their shit.
I can tell you a specific scenario I take issue with. At the grocery store the other day, a child screamed at the top of its lungs all over the store. The parent never seemed to notice or care, but people everywhere were looking at each other, all clearly bothered. I’m sorry but that’s not my problem, that’s their shit to work out and they clearly don’t give a shit about others. Shitty parenting, 100% worthy of judgement.
We don’t have to assume that everyone bothered by kids at all hates kids or has no tolerance for their annoyances. OP did that, and took out what seems obvious to me as parental stress on users ITT. So I don’t really have much capacity left to empathize with them in particular.
Absolutely. I swear, these people just want no one to ever dare have children and for humanity to go extinct.
Hahahahahaha
Right. Maybe that’s why you have mad social anxiety and the like. Because your parents beat your ass for even talking when out in public.
And entirely voluntary.
You’ve riled the forever alone nerds.
Ohh… shes talking about Trump… makes sense.
Me watching my only heir reenact Bruegel’s Seven Vices: 🤬 (they heed me not)
Me watching the unheeded parents of another demonic recreant: 😌
Fuck*ss child? President Trump and friends would like to know where you’re hanging out.
Ok boomer.
Seriously. How old is the person in this image? 30? Born in 1995, shopping with mom in the store in 2000 at 5 years old and getting beaten? People acting like 2000 is 1965.
E: ITT everyone got beaten.
I was born in 1991. My parents regularly doled out spankings for misbehavior. But they did it in private.
I’m happy you had a better childhood than most
That’s not the case, I can assure you. Corporal punishment was doled out in school and at home.
I mean, my parents were definitely using corporal punishment on me in 2005, and atleast in their social circle it was considered normal, expected even to the point that no one batted an eye when it happened in public.
I know kids being beaten well into the 2000s
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