Gene Pasquet :emacs: (@[email protected])
emacs.ch
#mastodonsocial and #lemmyml are both blocked however

Funny if true.

  • kbal@fedia.io
    521·
    9 months ago

    As the comment there says, the surprise is that not every instance is blocked yet.

    But I’ve seen hardly any Chinese on the fediverse, so they probably don’t care that much. And it’s not just that I’ve stuck to the English-speaking parts, there’s been lots of Japanese and various European languages. I suppose even if it otherwise would have a chance to catch on there, Chinese users know that if it did it quickly would get blocked.

    • ZILtoid1991@lemmy.world
      112·
      9 months ago

      I’ve only seen Taiwanese on Mastodon, especially as they’re leaving Twatter due to Chinese bot activity.

    • Daz@lemmy.mlOPEnglish
      102·
      9 months ago

      Wouldn’t they just use a VPN? I know they’re technically illegal in China but from what I’ve heard lots of people still use them regularly.

      • Ademir@lemmy.eco.br
        199·
        9 months ago

        VPNs are not illegal in China. And one can use it to circumvent any restrictions.

        • Socsa@sh.itjust.works
          182·
          9 months ago

          Non-approved VPNs used to circumvent the great wall are absolutely illegal, though largely tolerated (and observed), but the authorities can and have used them as an excuse to bring people in.

          Source: have actual been to China and played the whole “which VPN will work on which network” game many times.

        • Hotzilla@sopuli.xyz
          71·
          9 months ago

          I assume all vpn services accessible from china are run by government and they monitor the traffic

      • Buelldozer@lemmy.today
        104·
        9 months ago

        I feel like I should say that a VPN isn’t a magic bullet. Even if its configured correctly to totally obfuscate the data and the final endpoint of the traffic it’s still blatantly obvious that a VPN is in use. Given that the CCP monitors all of this stuff it wouldn’t surprise me to learn that if you run a VPN long or often enough without providing stating why that it’ll either end up blocked or you’ll end up in trouble.

      • kbal@fedia.io
        4·
        9 months ago

        I’m sure lots of people do, it’s a big country. But for the vast majority I imagine that the risk of getting in trouble for it, plus the risk of the one you paid for getting successfully blocked, plus the difficulty of finding out which ones are allowed to operate only because they share all your data with the authorities, plus the cost, plus the usual difficulties in finding a good vpn outweigh any desire to communicate freely with foreigners.

  • deadcream@sopuli.xyz
    303·
    9 months ago

    Please, someone tell comrade Stalin Xi that this is all just a terrible mistake!

    • Beanson@lemmy.ml
      167·
      9 months ago

      I made an account a long while ago when it was the only instance with any content but I’m just a lurker looking for memes and tech news. Feeling like I should change instance these days…

    • barsoap@lemm.ee
      129·
      9 months ago

      lemmygrad is full of full-on tankies, the type who would willingly send birthday greetings to comrade Stalin while imprisoned in a gulag, lemmy.ml once was a default instance and thus has random folks on it but is admin-wise run by tankies and generally seems to serve as the preferred instance for lemmygrad folks to have alts on. Stay away from political communities there e.g. their worldnews community is a silly place. Hexbear is hit and miss, not so much hardened tankies there but wokescolds and random lefties who don’t quite realise who they associate with, why that kind of social dynamics is no good. Might have some inane takes, occasionally prone to dogpiling, but at least you can have a conversation with them.

      • Omega_Haxors@lemmy.mlEnglish
        83·
        9 months ago

        Using alt-right terminology should get you disqualified from any reasonable conversation.

        • barsoap@lemm.ee
          34·
          9 months ago

          What, the term “tankie”? A term coined within the Communist Party of Great Britain? The CPGP is alt-right, now?

          Calling the term “alt-right” is just a quick way of telling me you’re a tankie without telling me you’re a tankie.

          Oh. “wokescold” is another possibility but that’s rather unlikely, while the right has appropriated “woke” I’ve never heard them use “wokescold” which is precisely used by people who know and understand the original meaning and simply want to call out certain problematic behaviours done in the name of, but not to the benefit of, wokeness.

          • Omega_Haxors@lemmy.mlEnglish
            62·
            9 months ago

            Don’t fucking bullshit me, we both know that I was referring to wokescold. Tankie is a horrible fucking word but it way predates the alt-right.

            • barsoap@lemm.ee
              25·
              9 months ago

              I’ll just quote Zena+Poppy on the term. You may not like it, you might prefer clinical analytical language such as “puritanical progressive” or whatever, but from the context I used it in (making direct reference to social dynamics) it should be obvious that I used it in that sense.

              And, no, tankie is not a “horrible fucking word”. It is precise and succinct, also, tankies hate it.

              • Omega_Haxors@lemmy.mlEnglish
                31·
                9 months ago

                No it’s not a matter of how “nice” it sounds, it’s about the fact that it was created by nazis for a nazi agenda.

                I have zero patience for people who side with fascism. Sorry for having basic standards of human decency.

                • barsoap@lemm.ee
                  23·
                  9 months ago

                  it was created by nazis for a nazi agenda.

                  Source on that? I’m serious. I did a bit of googling and do see that the likes of Ben Shapiro have been using it, but that’s definitely not where I have it from, and you’ll also see plenty of left-wing uses of it.

                  I have zero patience for people who side with fascism.

                  I referred you to a quite precise definition of what I mean by the term. Can you explain to me how criticising the things encompassed by that definition would put me “on the side of fascism”? Fascists have come up with plenty of terms leftists use all the time, an obvious example would be the word “fascist”. Allegiance to fascism, I’d say, cannot be inferred merely by use of some shared vocabulary, you have to go deeper than that.

                  In any case, and I hope you see the irony, going nuclear over the use of such a term, to drill down on syntax instead of semantics, is not unlikely to fit the wokescold pattern of behaviour. Depends a bit on how you do it but overall I’d say it’s likely you’d hit at least some of the checkboxes Zena+Poppy are giving.

    • Daz@lemmy.mlOPEnglish
      4039·
      9 months ago

      If you mean communists that support capitalist states like China, then yes, unfortunately. Better than being around nothing but liberals or anti-communists though.

        • db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com
          278·
          9 months ago

          It totally is. Not by your pet definition maybe but millions of wage workers and stock markets say otherwise

          • Omega_Haxors@lemmy.mlEnglish
            5·
            9 months ago

            Aren’t you that guy who argued with your own community and played the victim over the use of AI art because you didn’t want to accept you were being an insufferable AI techbro who doesn’t understand consent? Like I’ve seen trolls flex more to criticism than you did there.

            EDIT: Wondered why they didn’t respond and. Holy shit I just looked at the modlog for dbzer0 and you can’t make this shit up Banned me for reason: pedojacketing, fashjacketing

            So you ARE a pedophile-nazi. Fucking love to see it. I will be adding your instance to my block list. If you see this: get help.

        • Daz@lemmy.mlOPEnglish
          106·
          9 months ago

          What a depressing view of “socialism” you have.

      • Alsephina@lemmy.mlEnglish
        1821·
        9 months ago

        Used to mean someone who would support sending in tanks to crush capitalist rallies like in Hungary (which most people who get labelled “tankies” these days obviously don’t), but nowadays it’s just an anti-communist term for anyone that supports any socialist revolution that has successfully built a socialist nation.

          • Alsephina@lemmy.mlEnglish
            2014·
            9 months ago

            All states are inherently “authoritarian” and enforce certain principles over others. What matters is if those principles materially prioritize workers over capitalists, which socialist states do.

            You can’t create a stateless, classless communist society from capitalism without a transitional socialist state that breaks the monopoly on force and propaganda that capitalist states have — specially in a world ruled by capitalist superpowers like the US which constantly coups and invades non-capitalist states. Thinking otherwise is just delusional and utopian.

            No non-capitalist state will survive in the modern world if they don’t sufficiently get rid of propaganda and deal with capitalist funded insurgencies, which capitalist states will label as “authoritarian”; they’d immediately be coup’d and overthrown by imperial core countries otherwise, as many socialist states have (Chile, Libya, etc).

            And regardless, socialist states are a massive improvement over capitalist states when it comes to “authoritarianism” anyway, same as most other metrics. The US has 0.8% of its population in prison for example, while China has 0.1%. Similar stats on most metrics for the USSR vs USA; socialist Russia’s human rights were also far better than capitalist Russia’s, obviously.

            • barsoap@lemm.ee
              86·
              9 months ago

              You can’t create a stateless, classless communist society from capitalism without a transitional socialist state that breaks the monopoly on force and propaganda that capitalist states have — specially in a world ruled by capitalist superpowers like the US which constantly coups and invades non-capitalist states.

              Ask the Zapatista. Yes, the US tried to get rid of them, couldn’t, learned better and now is just letting them be. Rojava is an even better example as the US wilfully allied with them.

              Figures if your revolution isn’t centrally organised by Moscow or China post-McCarthy US doesn’t actually care. Present-day US would’ve also let Cuba be SocDem, as was the original intent of the revolutionaries, instead of pushing them into alliance with the USSR.

              • Alsephina@lemmy.mlEnglish
                132·
                9 months ago

                Rojava is a decentralized capitalist region with no plans of being socialist/anarchist/etc whose leadership allows the US to use it as a imperialist proxy and military base in the region. Of course the US likes that lmao; the US National Security Council calls it another “israel” in the region.

                The Zapatistas are cool comrades who fought off the US and other capitalist forces as all socialist projects have to. Different from most successful socialist revolutions in that it didn’t establish a state (though it was managed centrally by the EZLN), but it has since succumbed to pressure from the government and cartels and has dissolved its municipalities last year — so it’s not quite as successful of a revolution as those that establish a state, some of which have already managed to become nations of millions or global superpowers.

                Cuba be SocDem, as was the original intent of the revolutionaries

                “Social democracy” back then just meant socialism. The Bolsheviks who established the USSR were also “social democrats”

                And your fantasies of the US ever letting a US-backed military dictatorship be overthrown and develop are funny, specially when it’s currently committing a genocide in Palestine and not even letting them get rid of a western colony.

                • barsoap@lemm.ee
                  66·
                  9 months ago

                  Rojava is a decentralized capitalist region

                  And the USSR was a centralised state capitalist system. China has even left the “state” part behind and is nowhere nearer abolishing class than it was at the start of the revolution. It actually regressed in that regard.

                  But, fine, call Rojava that if you will. Just shows how you can’t see any possible roads to communism that don’t involve the failed experiment that is state capitalism.

                  though it was managed centrally by the EZLN

                  The EZLN does not manage centrally. The EZLN is not even a governing body. It’s a decentralised milita that councils tasked with matters of military security. It is those councils which are the governing body, not the EZLN. Rojava operates alongside the same lines, though details differ because cultural, material, and other differences.

                  I know it might be incomprehensible to you: A literal army, with all the capability it could wish for to order the local population around, sat down with the local population and told them about their ideas. The population then told them about theirs. They discussed, mutually refined their ideas until there was a consensus on how to move ahead, leading to what you see now. No shot was fired, noone was sent to gulag. They’ve also been capable of large organisational reforms, deliberated to consensus, implementation happened just a couple of months ago.

                  Maybe you should set aside some time and actually study those regions, not just read tankie cliff notes about how they supposedly work, or don’t, or are secretly authoritarian, or whatever.

                  The Bolsheviks who established the USSR were also “social democrats”

                  The Bolsheviks were never democrats and the French social democrats still call themselves communists. But that’s rather besides the point: The Cuban revolution was in the late 50, by then the split between SocDems and communists (both liberal and authoritarian) was not just done it had hardened. Heck the revolution ended in 59, after the word tankie had been established, which was 56, in direct reaction to the Soviet invasion of Hungary.

                  The point I’m making here is that Fidel & Co came to the US, said “We’re eyeing doing something like your European allies are doing and want to be friends, you know, unions, welfare, worker’s rights”, the US said “nope, can’t have you not be slaves to Bacardi and United Fruit you’re our colony after all”, Cuba said “never mind then we thought we could be friends then we’ll go with our second choice, the USSR”. The USSR, then, demanded from their allies a heavily authoritarian slant, so Cuba adopted it, in the interest of national survival not out of preference. Which is also why they are by far the furthest along among the surviving ML states when it comes to democratisation. Vietnam is second, with quite some distance, China makes no moves in that regard and North Korea, well, North Korea is only ever getting worse, not better. Oh, Eritrea. Same.

              • Omega_Haxors@lemmy.mlEnglish
                1·
                9 months ago

                Zapatistas flexed and built a centralized structure it because they weren’t getting anything done.

  • delirious_owl@discuss.online
    3316·
    9 months ago

    Why would State Capitalists allow discussions about actual communism? God forbid he people get it into their head to form trade unions…

    • Socsa@sh.itjust.works
      2016·
      9 months ago

      To be fair, .ml bans you pretty quickly for discussing anything outside of a pretty narrow stripe of Marxist Leninist orthodoxy as well.

      • octopus_ink@lemmy.mlEnglish
        202·
        9 months ago

        I don’t consider myself a Marxist, Leninist, or communist of any stripe and haven’t had a problem so far. I’m far enough left that I refuse to call myself a liberal, but I suspect the folks who consider themselves Marxists probably think I’m too far right to self-identify as a leftist. (Although I do.)

        Shitload of downvotes a time or two, but that’s about it. I just wanted to be on a Lemmy instance that was honoring the fedipact, and preferred it to have an instance ethos to the left of mine rather than to the right of it.

        I like it here.

      • kbal@fedia.io
        73·
        9 months ago

        Not only did I not stick to ML orthodoxy while I was there (I’m more of a peacenik anarchist at heart), I wrote some fairly rude things when I found out how insane some of the tankies on lemmy can be. I hadn’t expected such people to exist in reality, I had thought it was just a caricature invented by enemies of communism or something. Nonetheless they did not ban me or complain at all when I said that sort of thing.

        Eventually I left because their list of blocked instances got too long for my taste.

      • Buelldozer@lemmy.today
        41·
        9 months ago

        I don’t think that’s a fair criticizm. After all my dumb ass hasn’t been banned (so far).

      • TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmy.ml
        1212·
        9 months ago

        No there are bans for pro NATO bullshit. It so happens that ML ideology opposes western imperialism and English fascism.

        • Echo Dot@feddit.uk
          148·
          9 months ago

          So you are saying that you ban anyone that wants a intelligent conversation and mildly disagrees with you?

          Fortunately logic and reality are not really things that dictatorships really all that interested in. So I guess carry on.

          • TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmy.ml
            813·
            9 months ago

            An intelligent conversation is not one that desires oppression, economic or whatever kind. That kind of dialogue you seem to refer to is basically pseudo intellectual hipster culture, the shit you see on reddit and in liberal spaces.

            • Socsa@sh.itjust.works
              64·
              9 months ago

              I can just look at the modlog and tell that conversations about oppression are only allowed in one direction

              • TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmy.ml
                44·
                9 months ago

                I can just look at your arguments and tell that conversations with you about politics are only allowed in one direction

                • Socsa@sh.itjust.works
                  62·
                  9 months ago

                  Meh, I’m not the one aggressively trying to shut down any conversation which doesn’t go hard enough on ML fan service. I actually came to .ml at first hoping to find a more academically oriented leftist community which was willing to engage with topics other than “let’s relitigate the cold war.”

                  You are obviously free to dismiss any criticism of this community as “NATO chauvinist propaganda” or whatever, just as im free to roll my eyes and say that the world deserves a better class of socialist.

  • AMillionNames@sh.itjust.works
    226·
    9 months ago

    Any social networks that have non-censored participants are. Usually, China’s presence in social networks outside of its borders are for propaganda purposes.

  • Sims@lemmy.ml
    3242·
    9 months ago

    The Western ‘free’ population is one of the most information censored/restricted populations in the world, and yet they are flabbergasted that China and many many other nations won’t allow propaganda from western oligarchs into their country. It doesn’t matter that an information firewall is the single most important military defense against the Capitalist information war. That’s btw why the western world are propagandizing their population for ‘free speech’, so we all can see that wevil China don’t want free propaganda, sorry, speech.

    The most amazing and Incredible is how hateful attitudes can be bought for a few propaganda dollars in the western for profit information market. So western people actually believe all the hateful things the western oligarchy says about China (and ALL the other enemies of the oligarchs).

    How convenient and completely coincidental that the western population have the same opinions about nations and world leaders as the top elite… Could it be that… nooooo… no no… Western news are the BEST, and no Capitalist elite would lie about something like that to their own population, oh no no…