the most important conflict is class conflict, and my most immediate enemy is the ruling class of my own country
In some situations that might be true but I think it depends. In some cases, the ruling class of your own country might be investing in a military which protects you, while a foreign government might want to invade your country and oppress you. For example, if you were an American Jew in WW2 then surely the US ruling class was a better friend to you than the foreign country of Germany, who wanted to exterminate all Jews.
Through diplomacy and voluntary trade deals? I don’t see a problem with that. If that was how the US went about things, I’d feel pretty differently about the US than I do.
making friends with other world leaders who want to expand their power
I don’t really see “making friends” as being imperialist. China’s foreign policy is, generally speaking, to stay out of political questions and trade with everyone. This isn’t a perfect position, but it’s at least a degree of separation from imperialism.
In some situations that might be true but I think it depends. In some cases, the ruling class of your own country might be investing in a military which protects you, while a foreign government might want to invade your country and oppress you.
Yes, in some situations, I agree. This is a perspective argued by other theorists like Franz Fanon, who’s position was that developing countries escaping colonialism have more to worry about from foreign colonizers than from their domestic “bourgeoisie,” who are still relatively poor.
This is also why the CCP formed coalitions with the KMT in order to repell the Japanese fascists (and previously, to put down the warlords that emerged following the fall of the Qing). Likewise, the USSR condemned strikes that took place in the US during WWII, because defeating the Nazis was more important.
But these are exceptional cases, where either the class dynamics are different from developed countries, or where a truly existential threat exists, such as Germany and Japan in WWII. Of course, since WWII, US politicians have attempted to compare every conflict to it and to argue that there’s an existential threat, even when it’s completely absurd, including Korea, Vietnam, and Iraq.
We can argue about the merits and flaws of China and Russia, but neither of them represent an existential threat to me as an American. Pretty much the only thing that does present an existential threat, imo, is the rise of fascism domestically. And that threat is caused by declining economic conditions, perpetuated by maintaining status quo policies. And the only options we are offered in the existing political system are to maintain those policies and sink further into decline, or to move closer to fascism directly. This makes the rise of fascism inevitable, unless victories are won by the working class to, at minimum, extract the necessary policy concessions to restore stability and stave off decline. Therefore, in my position, class conflict should come before anything else.
We can argue about the merits and flaws of China and Russia, but neither of them represent an existential threat to me as an American. Pretty much the only thing that does present an existential threat, imo, is the rise of fascism domestically.
Fair point. Here in Europe though, Russia is probably a bit more worrying. E.g. I’m not surprised that Poland wants to take a firm stance of supporting Ukraine, because Poles are probably worrying that their land might be invaded if Ukraine is taken over by Russia.
As for China, maybe we would disagree, but I think they really want to expand their power, even if that means stamping on people’s rights… for one thing it might be good if China had political freedom and democracy. China will obviously do what it wants for the time being, but I think I will remain a bit wary of what seems to be expansionist ambitions.
Fair point. Here in Europe though, Russia is probably a bit more worrying. E.g. I’m not surprised that Poland wants to take a firm stance of supporting Ukraine, because Poles are probably worrying that their land might be invaded if Ukraine is taken over by Russia.
My perspective on that is that I’m not really convinced that Poland’s government is really that much better than Russia’s to the point to be worth fighting for. They’re both right-wing capitalist governments that don’t seem to do a lot for their people. If I were a Pole, or a Russian or Ukrainian, and the government tried to draft me to fight, I’d probably just flee. Is the average person’s life really going to be that different? A government is only worth fighting for if it actually does things for the people (or if the enemy is genocidal like the Nazis).
As for China, maybe we would disagree, but I think they really want to expand their power, even if that means stamping on people’s rights…
Of course. Every country, or at least every superpower, gets there because they’re willing to play the game, because they have their eye on the ball. That’s just the way the world works, realistically.
But China’s approach is mostly about winning the peace. China expands through economic investment and the production of goods. Every year, more and more small countries that used to be neutral are turning towards China and countries that used to be oriented towards the US are becoming neutral and dealing with both. Colombia, for example. Because the US is at best neglectful of these countries, at worst, it’s outright hostile, it maintains and expands control through outright invasions, bombing campaigns, funding insurgencies, covert regime change, and freezing assets. Every time it does this for the sake of controlling one country, a hundred countries see it and wonder if they’re next. In the past, they had little choice but to tolerate it, but now that China is a viable challenger, they have options.
Multipolarity restricts the abuse any country can commit, because of the option of turning to an alternative. Likely, part of why China offers more generous and less restrictive deals is simply because they’re trying to break into the market.
China is not my ideal system. Tbh, my ideals might be incompatible with achieving superpower status. But China makes it more likely that something closer to my ideals could be implemented in smaller countries around the globe, and, having been tested and proven in that context, those policies could spread further.
But ultimately my point is, you don’t make it to the top without stepping on people’s toes sometimes. You might say, “Well then maybe you shouldn’t try to make it to the top,” and that’s a valid point, but someone’s going to be on top, and the further up that person is from everyone else, the more ruthless they probably had to be to get there - and the more they are able to act with impunity. If you’re trying to bring the top down to a lower level, that is not achieved by primarily focusing on the top’s main rivals or competitors.
for one thing it might be good if China had political freedom and democracy
It might be good if the US had political freedom and democracy too.
I don’t really know how to evaluate how democratic a system is, from the outside. China has elections, and the government has a high degree of support (according to Western polls). It’s true that the system is dominated by one party but there were also reforms made to allow more ideological diversity to exist within the party than previously. Not having lived there, I find it difficult to evaluate.
But I can tell you that the American system is certainly not democratic. We have tons of untraceable dark money going into campaigns, our system is designed to only allow two parties, both of which are corrupt and serve the interests of the rich, polls consistently show overwhelming dissatisfaction with congress regardless of who’s in charge, people are being abducted off the streets without due process, taken to secret prisons (such as the one at Guantanamo, which has existed for decades under both parties), etc.
How am I supposed to worry about what’s going on in China? I have bigger fish to fry, don’t you think?
Settling islands, wanting to take over Taiwan, trying to expand their global power, making friends with other world leaders who want to expand their power, etc.
In some situations that might be true but I think it depends. In some cases, the ruling class of your own country might be investing in a military which protects you, while a foreign government might want to invade your country and oppress you. For example, if you were an American Jew in WW2 then surely the US ruling class was a better friend to you than the foreign country of Germany, who wanted to exterminate all Jews.
It’s just saber-rattling.
Through diplomacy and voluntary trade deals? I don’t see a problem with that. If that was how the US went about things, I’d feel pretty differently about the US than I do.
I don’t really see “making friends” as being imperialist. China’s foreign policy is, generally speaking, to stay out of political questions and trade with everyone. This isn’t a perfect position, but it’s at least a degree of separation from imperialism.
Yes, in some situations, I agree. This is a perspective argued by other theorists like Franz Fanon, who’s position was that developing countries escaping colonialism have more to worry about from foreign colonizers than from their domestic “bourgeoisie,” who are still relatively poor.
This is also why the CCP formed coalitions with the KMT in order to repell the Japanese fascists (and previously, to put down the warlords that emerged following the fall of the Qing). Likewise, the USSR condemned strikes that took place in the US during WWII, because defeating the Nazis was more important.
But these are exceptional cases, where either the class dynamics are different from developed countries, or where a truly existential threat exists, such as Germany and Japan in WWII. Of course, since WWII, US politicians have attempted to compare every conflict to it and to argue that there’s an existential threat, even when it’s completely absurd, including Korea, Vietnam, and Iraq.
We can argue about the merits and flaws of China and Russia, but neither of them represent an existential threat to me as an American. Pretty much the only thing that does present an existential threat, imo, is the rise of fascism domestically. And that threat is caused by declining economic conditions, perpetuated by maintaining status quo policies. And the only options we are offered in the existing political system are to maintain those policies and sink further into decline, or to move closer to fascism directly. This makes the rise of fascism inevitable, unless victories are won by the working class to, at minimum, extract the necessary policy concessions to restore stability and stave off decline. Therefore, in my position, class conflict should come before anything else.
Fair point. Here in Europe though, Russia is probably a bit more worrying. E.g. I’m not surprised that Poland wants to take a firm stance of supporting Ukraine, because Poles are probably worrying that their land might be invaded if Ukraine is taken over by Russia.
As for China, maybe we would disagree, but I think they really want to expand their power, even if that means stamping on people’s rights… for one thing it might be good if China had political freedom and democracy. China will obviously do what it wants for the time being, but I think I will remain a bit wary of what seems to be expansionist ambitions.
My perspective on that is that I’m not really convinced that Poland’s government is really that much better than Russia’s to the point to be worth fighting for. They’re both right-wing capitalist governments that don’t seem to do a lot for their people. If I were a Pole, or a Russian or Ukrainian, and the government tried to draft me to fight, I’d probably just flee. Is the average person’s life really going to be that different? A government is only worth fighting for if it actually does things for the people (or if the enemy is genocidal like the Nazis).
Of course. Every country, or at least every superpower, gets there because they’re willing to play the game, because they have their eye on the ball. That’s just the way the world works, realistically.
But China’s approach is mostly about winning the peace. China expands through economic investment and the production of goods. Every year, more and more small countries that used to be neutral are turning towards China and countries that used to be oriented towards the US are becoming neutral and dealing with both. Colombia, for example. Because the US is at best neglectful of these countries, at worst, it’s outright hostile, it maintains and expands control through outright invasions, bombing campaigns, funding insurgencies, covert regime change, and freezing assets. Every time it does this for the sake of controlling one country, a hundred countries see it and wonder if they’re next. In the past, they had little choice but to tolerate it, but now that China is a viable challenger, they have options.
Multipolarity restricts the abuse any country can commit, because of the option of turning to an alternative. Likely, part of why China offers more generous and less restrictive deals is simply because they’re trying to break into the market.
China is not my ideal system. Tbh, my ideals might be incompatible with achieving superpower status. But China makes it more likely that something closer to my ideals could be implemented in smaller countries around the globe, and, having been tested and proven in that context, those policies could spread further.
But ultimately my point is, you don’t make it to the top without stepping on people’s toes sometimes. You might say, “Well then maybe you shouldn’t try to make it to the top,” and that’s a valid point, but someone’s going to be on top, and the further up that person is from everyone else, the more ruthless they probably had to be to get there - and the more they are able to act with impunity. If you’re trying to bring the top down to a lower level, that is not achieved by primarily focusing on the top’s main rivals or competitors.
It might be good if the US had political freedom and democracy too.
I don’t really know how to evaluate how democratic a system is, from the outside. China has elections, and the government has a high degree of support (according to Western polls). It’s true that the system is dominated by one party but there were also reforms made to allow more ideological diversity to exist within the party than previously. Not having lived there, I find it difficult to evaluate.
But I can tell you that the American system is certainly not democratic. We have tons of untraceable dark money going into campaigns, our system is designed to only allow two parties, both of which are corrupt and serve the interests of the rich, polls consistently show overwhelming dissatisfaction with congress regardless of who’s in charge, people are being abducted off the streets without due process, taken to secret prisons (such as the one at Guantanamo, which has existed for decades under both parties), etc.
How am I supposed to worry about what’s going on in China? I have bigger fish to fry, don’t you think?