Agreed, but this addresses only half of the problem. If this was all there was about AI, hell, I’d be a bit bummed and that’d be it.
The economics and ethics (both from consent to train models, lack of remuneration, job reductions, and ecological/environmental) is what really makes the whole deal just inflammatory. It’s not just a removal of purpose for artists, but in the most unjust way possible.
I like to look at art and think that someone grew a little as a person as a result of creating it. Doesn’t really matter if it is good or bad art. But if they just prompted a machine to do it then their skillset did not grow in the same way and I view it as having less achievement to it. Idk. Every human-created artwork has a person in it and machine art has markedly less of a person in it.
I have a question…
LLMs and generative AI are really only good at a subset of things, and we use them outside those things too often. But one thing they’re extremely good at is identifying similarities in text.
I don’t think AI as a technology is a problem, simply how we’re using it, much like a knife.
If there was an art search engine that indexed every piece of human-made art that could be found and allowed you to search for it in natural language, would you use it? This would be different from a search engine in that natural language allows for more clarity of context and emphasis.
A lot of the joy of viewing and experiencing art, for me, comes from growth. Your tastes grow as you explore art, manually. Your horizons expand as you see art, including art that you don’t like, and it can lead you to developing a real sense of your own taste and identity.
To show this even in microcosm: I’ve got dozens of books containing all sorts of drawn or painted pieces, or photographs, but one of my favourites is The Art of Heraldry. Flicking through the pages you’ll see hundreds of different heraldic crests and coats of arms, crowns, all sorts. There’s stuff in there I think is thoroughly ugly, but that explored an idea I’d never thought of, or showed a new way to include an element that I’d never seen before.
If I could sit down and type exactly what I wanted into an AI and have it return the exact thing I’m looking for, why would my tastes ever evolve? I would miss out on so much human effort and creativity. I wouldn’t grow.
That is a damn good point.
It’s tricky because sometimes you need to find something specific for good reason, and other times, exploring would do you good.
In any case, very helpful perspective. Maybe it’s good I’d never have the time to build something like this anyway.
I wonder… this is slightly off topic, but fun to think out loud. In Korea, search super sucks. Most content is shared via blogs, and back links aren’t a thing. All bloggers, and even the blogging platform, actively discourage any kind of copying. In the West, we solved this with sharing and back links, but that hasn’t caught on here. But Koreans seem to (to me, at least) almost enjoy drudging through blog after blog trying to find what they’re looking for. I always thought it’s because they felt they had no alternative, but now I wonder if they have your perspective in mind.
In what context would that ever be useful?
Advertising
Maybe you want to buy some art. Maybe you saw some art but can’t remember where it came from. Maybe you have a specific feeling and you’d like to see some art to go along with it. Maybe there’s a comic with some joke that you want to find and share.
Basically, it fulfills the same role as a search engine.
The reason I propose it for art is because most people may have trouble describing art, and most art isn’t indexed by its contents. An LLM can help with both of these problems.
It could be useful in other domains, too, but the required information isn’t as readily available. I’ll give two contrasting examples:
- You saw some web comic. You don’t know the artist. You know the plot. You have some idea of the style. You might query like “web comic about a dad joke, colorful, cartoony art style, one character has a red shirt, the other character has a blue shirt.” All of this information is inside the comic image and could be discerned by an LLM.
- You went to some restaurant a couple years ago. It was a pizza place. The interior was small. The owner was a little gruff. It had a big red logo. It was on the corner near the sushi place. The tables inside have white table cloths. Not all of that information is available online, so an LLM would have no way to index it.
I imagine at least some people would find it useful. I don’t know if it could be profitable with ads, but… I just like having thoughts like these. Have the knowledge but not the time, energy, or money to build something like this :/
If there was an art search engine that indexed every piece of human-made art that could be found and allowed you to search for it in natural language, would you use it? This would be different from a search engine in that natural language allows for more clarity of context and emphasis.
Like all other LLMs, I would use it if I lacked the skill to use a better, more accurate, less halucination-prone search engine.
There’s a great place for LLMs - as training wheels for non-experts.
- Hard coded solutions designed thoughtfully are the best solutions.
- Dedicated query languages that take skill to learn are the best solutions.
- People who use the command line get better results from their computers.
But not everyone needs to use a carefully engineered command line interface, but those who do so get better results.
For about 80% of all problems, a halucination-prone human language interface will get the job done. This is lovely and opens up exciting opportunities for non-experts.
The problem is when people believe the lie that the human language interface to the computer gets better results for an expert. It still doesn’t. It never will.
A rock that we taught to think will always be most powerful when operated directly using special “rock-that-we-taught-to-think” codes. Computers are still computers, and they are operated most powerfully and accurately by using computer languages. No abstraction has ever changed this.
Usually that doesn’t matter anymore. But sometimes it still does.
And abstractions are still great. They make computers useful to more people.
Most domains already have specialized human computer interface languages. Experts in those domains already know those languages. Experts may find LLMs convenient, but LLMs do not meaningfully increase the capabilities of an expert.
But LLMs can help the rest of us, and the interface you purpose would be cool and useful, to the rest of us.
If we go on singularity, problem solved.
Same rethoric, different century.
Basically the same artistic fears as when photography was invented.
and when photography came around, art diversified; painters started painting fantastical stuff, stuff that a camera couldn’t take a picture of
i wonder if AI will do the same, making artists create art that AI can’t create
maybe more artists will go back to traditional art; an AI can generate a picture, a 3D model, a video, but it can’t paint, sculpt, or perform a theatrical play
i hear this a lot in regards to ai nowadays, that art is just derivative. a copy of a copy of a copy. i think its important to understand thats also true for human art. the art we make is influenced by all other art we see.
everything is a remix: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9RYuvPCQUA
Everything is a remix, and most human remixes are slop.
The difference with AI is that no AI remix is not slop.
Today’s AI cannot meaningfully innovate, re-interpret, or reconsider.
AI remixes are thoughtless, in both figuratively and literally.
Like many things in life, it has some use and value, but much less than it is currently being sold as.
There is a difference in looking at a painting or movie and getting inspiration from it and learning how to copy the technique, taking time to understand why the previous creator made their choices and taking your thoughtfully gained knowledge and putting that into your own work versus taking a camera and snapping a picture and calling it your own. It’s essentially a copyright free right click and copy paste.
Ai is a legal way to steal and not feel guilty while not learning anything about the art you are stealing.
yea ai does it in a different way than humans do, i agree. altho i wouldnt say its equivalent to making a perfect copy of something. people wouldnt be using ai if that were all it did.
im also not saying that ai art is as good or even close to as good as art made by humans with purpose and intention behind it, just that both are based on previous existing works in some form
Considering Pizzacake is the epitome of bland mediocrity, and could absolutely be replaced by AI, this is pretty ironic.
Lol the Thrediverse Pizzacake patrol is on scene LMAO
Oh, it’s you again.
Do you have an alert set up whenever someone mentions her or something?
LMAO PCC is decently liked here, it doesn’t take much scrolling on c/all to get to it when it’s been posted
I don’t believe you’re actually laughing at this at all.
Every. Single. Time. Her. Comics. Are. Posted.
Without fail.
One of you comes in and shits on it.
So many comics are posted from artists that make generic lower effort comics and nothing is stated.
The bear shop? Nothing. That dino comic that’s used the same art for 400 pages? Silence. Owlturd? Nada. Even xkcd is mostly basic observations and simple art. To be clear I do like all those comics
Her though? We flip the fuck out literally every time.
I think it’s because she’s a sex worker. Maybe you aren’t against it but we do mostly come from reddit. You bandwagon the hate and don’t know why never showing consistency and arguing the same for other artists. Just her.
Come on man we know you hate it, that’s OK, you don’t need to rave out each time she comes up.
I’m so fucking annoyed by this constant trashing.
The bear comic gets like three upvotes, that’s why nobody pays any attention to it.
Pizzacake has a downright obsessive fan base, that will defend her slop tooth and nail, which means it gets seen by more people, and therefore shat on by more people.
works every time!
welcome to my blocklist.
You’ve said that to me before, I’m pretty sure.
First time i actually like and agree with her content.
it’s peaceful and quaint nature
Yes, it is.
