This is how the entwives ended up getting lost.
And they will never be found because they don’t call themselves “entwives”
South Korea, what the fuck?
From the article:
The #MeToo movement was the key trigger, giving rise to fiercely feminist values among young women who felt empowered to speak out against long-running injustices. That spark found especially dry tinder in South Korea, where gender inequality remains stark, and outright misogyny is common.
In the country’s 2022 presidential election, while older men and women voted in lockstep, young men swung heavily behind the right-wing People Power party, and young women backed the liberal Democratic party in almost equal and opposite numbers.
Korea’s is an extreme situation, but it serves as a warning to other countries of what can happen when young men and women part ways. Its society is riven in two. Its marriage rate has plummeted, and birth rate has fallen precipitously, dropping to 0.78 births per woman in 2022, the lowest of any country in the world.
Seven years on from the initial #MeToo explosion, the gender divergence in attitudes has become self-sustaining. Survey data show that in many countries the ideological differences now extend beyond this issue. The clear progressive-vs-conservative divide on sexual harassment appears to have caused — or at least is part of — a broader realignment of young men and women into conservative and liberal camps respectively on other issues.
The flaws in their culture, where they’re expected to be invaded by North Korea at anytime, and nearly all the males – even pop stars – are also expected to do military service. Of course the men have become deeply reactionary, what with anti-communist propaganda heavily embedded throughout, and they’re not happy with South Korean women being more assertive now than 50 years ago.
It’s not helping that South Korea is so much of a horrifyingly thinly-disguised corporate dystopia.
Here’s the FT article the graphic is from
https://www.ft.com/content/29fd9b5c-2f35-41bf-9d4c-994db4e12998
The article does not evan define what it means by «liberal» and «conservative».
Do men do not want better worker rights? Are they all turning Christian and Muslim? Or is this only related to their support of LGBT+ efforts?I assume it means that the men are being brainwashed by facism and misogynist ideology and the women who are subjugated by that system are rejecting that in solidarity
or more likely imo their inability to say what they want and have a compliant tradwife despite their shit behaviour
Dumb fools who have no one decent to look up to end up blaming women for it, so move right. Women don’t want anything to do with dumb fools who want to take away their rights, so move left.
Sure, it is only this simple and you are very smart.
Being in this demographic, I don’t get this. How is right wing even an option, how do you tell yourself you’re okay with all the bullshit they’re pushing. I get if you were already right-wing, chances are you’ll stay like this, but how do you even go from ‘everyone should have rights’ to ‘maybe we should cripple ourselves, the rich deserves more’.
Shit’s wild
My honest opinion. The right pipeline is meeting boys where they are. The left needs to stop pontificating about shit and get on their level.
It’s no different than the fact that the education system as it’s been designed is easier for girls to navigate than boys. Look at post-secondary attendance by gender over time.
This is a problem that has been brewing for decades and we have done nothing to stop it and the right wing despite all their faults are actually engaging these boys where they are.
If you are a parent. Hell if you are a mother, you should be scared as shit at how your sons are checking out of society writ large.
I’m a 48 year old dude with 3 kids. My daughter will be fine. My boys on the other hand? I’m doing my best to make sure they’re adjusted and successful but it’s exceedingly hard.
The down votes on your comment are a head scratcher. No matter what you as a parent (or even young men commenting in this thread) say, that perspective is shouted down as manosphere brainwash propaganda.
It’s almost like retrograde toxic masculinity. Vulnerable young dudes trying to explain why left messaging makes them uncomfortable are being told to man up/grow up/get over it.
Maybe we should cripple ourselves
Naaaaah
Maybe we can become rich and dominate others
That’s what’s actually on their mind.
The entire right-wing propaganda goes as: “if you work hard and make smart choices, you’ll become rich too and will be able to exploit others for your benefit”. The rest are seen as passive doomer mob that just aren’t dedicated enough, and so end up subjugated by the alphas who pushed hard to pursue their dream (to dominate others and live a rich life on their backs).
This kind of propaganda works beautifully well on young folks who didn’t yet get to experience just how hard and unlikely it is to build a successful business or high-payed career, especially without compromising on one’s principles.
because the left actively hates young men.
imagine yourself being a 19 year old kid:
one side is saying how shit you are and how you deserve nothing. it’s only women who are worthwhile and you should just fuck off and die.
the other side is saying ‘do this and you’ll be successful’, it sucks right now but you will get there if you try.
which one are you going to find more appealing? pretty sure you’re not going to want to hang out with people who tell you how shitty and awful you are, but the people who tell you that you have a shot at a good life.
Pushing fake alpha male bullshit is my guess. See tate and the likes.
I spent over a decade thinking “God this sucks, but at least things will get better once the boomers die off.” The worst political blow of my life was realizing that the younger generation also lacked critical thinking skills.
One reason why so many are turning bigots, you expressed it yourself: your refusal to consider them on your same level, as intelligent and critical thinkers as you. Somehow everyone is stupid but you (and I don’t mean “you” specifically, rather everyone who approaches discourse in the same way).
Calling our opponents dumb is being polite, or maybe a psychological defense mechanism against the horror of the alternative.
If you are dumb it’s not your fault. You didn’t, know better. If you are ignorant you can learn.
If you are smart and you still made the choices knowing the outcomes, then we have to go to other explanations: greed is the next least bad, and certainly it plays a part, but honestly that doesn’t usually follow. The vast majority of conservative supporters have no chance to benefit from their policies, so we have to go further to find an explanation.
Cruelty. They want the suffering, the death, the destruction of human potential. Or maybe sadism. They enjoy inflicting pain and deprivation.
The mind recoils, so we call them dumb, because the world in which the ignorant masses are being misled by nafarious elites is less soul crushing to contemplate than the world where the masses act out of cruelty and sadism.
This bias is real. Everyone thinks they’re the smart one. There also do exist huge differences in intelligence.
The Boomers designed (and then aggressively defunded) the education system that these kids are being raised in, so it’s not really a huge surprise that they aren’t learning critical thinking.
Then combine that with the social media/advertising landscape that they’re constantly exposed to, and it’s really a losing battle.
Millennials are apparently the first generation to move “left” as they grow older, instead of right.
There are changes. Some positive.
That article was about Australia and even then the headline didn’t support the claims. Millennials have always been like 14 points more liberal than Gen X before them, but they haven’t moved more liberal over time.
Presumably meaning the percentage. Not all GenX went right, but I will admit I’ve been disappointed in seeing how many around my age did lose any semblance of critical thinking. And some of them very early, so it may not be age at all that’s a factor, but something else that affects people. Maybe millennials have managed to avoid whatever that is.
I think there is something to the “millennial’s refuse to grow up” mantra that boomers and genx accuse us of.
Like, if growing up is adopting a “fuck you i got mine” mentality… nah.
Tiktok and the like. Millenials grew up at the perfect time, where the internet was at its peak, then it all became consolidated into large echochambers which are more easily manipulated. Generations after millenials don’t remember the internet outside of tiktok, instagram, snapchat etc. they don’t what they missed out on.
elder milennials(too much baggage from thier boomer or Xer family members) turned right more than left, the younger ones tend to be left wings, barring some poc, and lgbtq+ are already on the left.
people move to the right when they buy homes and have kids. elder millenials are already there. younger ones haven’t started yet.
all of my friends who have bought a home and had kids have been way more conservative. both political and personally, they want to conserve things and not change things and see development/progress as a threat to themselves, their family, and their finances.
This is the story.
It’s also survivorship bias. Wealthy people live longer, and wealthy people are more conservative. As a cohort ages, the poor liberals die off and the wealthy assholes remain.
Social media is an incredibly strong tool. It started off pretty nice, so we thought once the boomers died out we would be better off and for a while it was looking good, but it has quickly turned into algorithmic slop which can easily feed people propaganda without them even realising it.
You’re making the assumption that these kids had a proper education that taught them critical thinking skills and how to spot propaganda.
I’m curious what would be the bar for proper education. Yesterday I was lectured by my fucking dentist (8years of college) on how poor people are all abusing the system and should lose all social protections. And he’s absolutely not an isolated case. Most of the engineers I manage are exhibiting similar thoughts about the jobless or immigrants. Again, at least 5 years of college. This shit is a poison. This is being relayed more and more by persons from 26 to 40 and I guess above all around. It feels like a national sport ; always shit on the one perceived below.
If my dentist ever said stuff like that to me I would tell them to shut the fuck up, and just do your job taking care of my teeth. If you don’t I’ll go to another dentist.
Pretty brave, telling someone who has already admitted they are a sadist to shut the fuck up, right before they get all in your mouth with metal tools!
Just because you do a lot of it doesn’t mean it was a proper education. In the US education is all about making you ready to be useful to “The Economy”, not to train you to be more intelligent.
Belgium here but I guess it’s fair enough.
Did you change dentists
Yeah, even if someone participates in what would be considered proper education, it doesn’t guarantee they learn from it. No one is safe from propaganda, and we’re living in the worst propaganda era so far. Who do you even believe nowadays if you are incapable of thinking for yourself? And if you can think for yourself, how much can you trust yourself to not fall for fake or misleading information?
Yeah sure but then it’s not so much about « getting a proper education » anymore. Or the education system is failing us which is even worse because then what’s the way out? How can I / we steer this situation so that people suck less? Man I’m terrified my kids will end up like that.
The death of the American dream is a big one. Speaking very generally, men want a better future for themselves and are willing to follow whoever promises it, while women are being specifically targeted by conservatives an don’t want anything to do with that shit. The weakness of the American left means that the average person only sees establishment centrism and far-right fascism as options.
Money. And acceptance. If you are loudly left wing you don’t get trust from those with the money. All the money is dedicated right wingers.
MANY people are just dumb. They will react and fear the way their favorite newsperson wants.
I will get down voted for this. But if you want an answer, here’s what I believe happens:
Initially young men were mostly okay with social left, because: “let gay people be gay”, “don’t treat women worse than men”, “don’t be hateful to foreigners” are easy to agree to, they follow the principles of “let people do whatever they want if it doesn’t affect you”, “every human should be treated equally” and “don’t hate entire groups of people for attributes they can’t control, some individuals are good and some are bad in every group”.
However, social left has moved the goalpost. Now it is: “we have to change the rules for the trans”, “we have to give women privilege to compensate for misogyny”, “we have to give minorities privilege to compensate for X-ism” which follow different principles than the first paragraph. And with the moving of the goalpost comes “if you are to the right of the goalpost after being moved, you are a fascist and a Nazi and I don’t wanna hear what you have to say”.
I liked and agreed with the first paragraph a lot. But I don’t like the second one at all. And I believe this happens to a lot more young men.
That being said, I’m not retarded, I would never fote for a right wing party, specially since they are doing the same and moving the goalpost to the right so much that most of them are actually fascists.
You are spot on. This is my personal beef with the left. Young men hate authoritarian bullshit, even if it’s leftist.
Also the same myself. I am now a Nazi because I believe in equality, not inequality based on sex/race/gender. I’ve also personally experience environments where a woman/trans person can assault another person and gets off scot free because they are treated like toddlers, but if a hetero or male person did that, they’d get the cops called on them.
Young men are well aware the world has stacked the rules against them and they are going to support/listen to people who tell them how unfair and fucked up that is.
I’ve been in the leftmost spaces most of my adult life. Accommodations for nuance have generally cost me a few calories in processing thought and not misgendering people but tha’ts it. It was annoying at times to learn new things but the impact on my ability to experience and navigate the world was nil. The benefits were that i got to have deeper connections with my friends of various genders and ethnicities.
I think if someone’s coming from an unchallenged experience of masculinity that when people ask for accommodation they feel it as a personal attack because they never had to expend a single calorie of energy on it before, and now someone is asking them to.
It also just takes a looooong time (decades even) to get over one’s own insecurities because it’s easy to hide those behind a mask of masculinity. That part takes a lot more effort whereas the manosphere tells you that you don’t have to climb that mountain because actualization is achieved hiding behind that mask.
I think if someone’s coming from an unchallenged experience of masculinity that when people ask for accommodation they feel it as a personal attack because they never had to expend a single calorie of energy on it before, and now someone is asking them to.
This is it.
Equality feels like oppression when you’re privileged.
Couldn’t be me talking from personal experience 🫠
Me too. leftist spaces used to be about freedom for everyone. Now they are about screaming at everyone who doesn’t agree with whatever the most ‘progressive’ point of view is that they are horrible and awful people.
Like, it’s fine if you wanna be a transgender poly person, but it’s not fine if you want to shit on everyone else who isn’t and act like they are ignorant nazis and spend your days shitting on anyone who isn’t in total agreement with your lifestyle.
Yeah it’s definitely not a monolith. There were always those cis-hating types of spaces around and that’s just counterproductive. Luckily my experience is in the “let’s figure it or together” types of spaces which are far and away the majority. But everyone remembers the most irritating voice which is often also the loudest.
I think there’s also a phase a lot of people go through in their journey where they feel a need to over-express their new identity. That can lead to social growing pains.
Yeah, keep antagonizing everyone that doesn’t have the exact same opinions you do. It’s gonna end great.
Also, that’s a lot of assumptions you made there.
I meant the Royal “you”. Fixing.
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And the fertility rate collapse rolls on due to…political incompatibilty among the younger generations.
I’m 33, but man, am I glad I found forums with open minded people…to be a hateful bigot in today’s age…just doesn’t make sense to me.
It’s partly because forums aren’t really a thing these days. People tend to spend their time on places like Instagram, twitter, YouTube, etc. All algorithmically feeding them content. And that algorithm isn’t what’s best or most liked, but what is the most engaged with. So anything “controversial”. Which, in the real world, equates to right-wing content.
Seriously, say you go on YouTube and you want to watch a video about a film. Say you liked the most recent Ghostbusters and think it’s underrated. You find a video called something like “Ghostbusters: Frozen Empire is actually better than you think”. It’s 30 minutes long, which is about the length of time you want to kill. You start watching and you’re agreeing with it. Then it gets to the 20 minute mark and suddenly the video is talking about the woman-led reboot and how bad it is in comparison. The word “woke” starts getting thrown around. Its lack of quality is blamed on women as a whole being incapable of being funny.
Suddenly you realise that the maker of the video is a misogynist and you stop watching.
But you’ve already watched 20 minutes. YouTube now thinks you like content of the kind produced by that channel. So you’ll see a lot more of that kind of thing, because it makes people angry. Either angry because they agree with the author about how wokeness is destroying everything, or angry because they think he’s a misogynist. But either way, they’re upvoting/downvoting and leaving comments.
Now, you’re not interested in that kind of material, but perhaps there’s a video that you wouldn’t have been recommended before which isn’t as extreme, but just has a couple of things you disagree with. Perhaps it’s masked with irony and edgy humour. Watch enough of this new kind of content and you might find yourself being a little more sympathetic to the parts that you would previously have disagreed with.
This is particularly true if you’re someone who doesn’t see themselves as being in a good situation. If you haven’t got a job, then it’s much more palatable to be told that it’s because of those foreigners coming here on small boats than it is that you’re not particularly employable, or there just aren’t very many jobs right now because we’re in an economic downturn, or that the entire system is rigged to take money from the poor and give it to the rich and that you’re on the wrong side of that equation. Those things are emotionally uncomfortable and complex as ideas. The thought “it’s all because of them” feels good, because anger feels good, and it’s simple. Just get rid of “them” and all will be wonderful again.
Same with women. Do you need to work on yourself? Do you need to actually make a conscious effort to examine your attitudes and the attitudes ingrained in society and think before you make an off-hand remark to a woman? Do you need to change your attitude and start thinking of women as complex people with inner lives who don’t owe you anything even if you really, really think they’re very pretty and they smell nice and are a bit gothy and have big tits and even if you’re always polite to them and hold the door open for them and once gave them half of your chocolate bar and she accepted and smiled at you? No! It’s the femoids’ fault for only wanting Chad and Tyrone! Come join US! WE understand you! We’re not going to tell you that you need to take any responsibility for anything! We’ll tell you that you ARE owed sex and that she’s a bitch for witholding it by putting you in the friendzone! It’s not YOU! It’s THEM! It’s all THEIR fault!
There’s a lot of people in bad situations. There’s a lot of people feeling neglected and lost and helpless and hopeless and emotionally disconnected. And the message that the answer is simple and it’s all the fault of [group X] and that if you could just put [group X] in their place then you’d get everything you ever wanted, is a very, very seductive one. “It’s complicated, and will require effort, and even then things may not get much better” is a much less appealing pitch.
Combine those things with engagement-pushing algorithms which favour right-wing content - alongside far-right groups actively trying to recruit people with irony and a “boil the frog” approach, and some platforms (twitter, I’m looking in your direction) actively trying to push a far-right narrative - and it’s not really a surprise that some people, men in particular, are moving to the right.
if people imbibe in xitter, rogean podcast, j peterson, shapiro, or even the tate brothers they are more than likely already deep in right wing mindset, all 4 are knowingly backed by russian propaganda/funded.
In any age, it didn’t make sense. We are strong, united. The elite seek to divide us because it makes us weaker and easier to control. Nobody is born a bigot.
Alone we are weak, like a single twig. But together…
Ape together strong
billionaires have bought up many of the popular entertainers of the internet age, or the platforms they’re hosted on. the propaganda pipeline is worse than it’s ever been, and people who aren’t in its crosshairs have no idea how bad it’s become.
Wise dudes should always zig when the bandwagon of bros zags. Increases your chances.
Having a niche helps. Never thought “be left wing” would be it, but here we are.
left wing “Spaces” are often astroturfed by right wing propaganda, makes hard to find a niche.
The charts in the article don’t even support this claim, at least in the USA and Britain. I mean look at them.
Please. If you actually bothered there’s tons of data to validate this trend. It’s been known for years now, this isn’t exactly news.
And the loneliness epidemic continues
Yeah the non korea charts appear to show young men being more centrist (+0) and women being more left.
Centrism is not a fixed ideology, it is just the current status quo. Sadly, the graphics are dogshit because they don’t explain what the y-axis means. Is that a value per country or should it be comparable? What is zero? A little bit of racism but worker rights?
\edited because I weirdly wrote in my native language in the middle
I was more getting at the headline but yeah that’s a larger problem with “left right” analysis in that is both a shifting target (example: in the 1900s eugenics was ‘progressive’ ) and its a fuzzy target where both sides might have similar policy stances in places but arrive there by very different paths (example: opposition to Israel).
I have been trying to understand what makes people lean so much into the right wing but, I don’t really get it.
For example the hot topic of immigrants, the right wing is blaming it all on them. However, not every problem is because of immigrants and neither will these problems suddenly be solved when the people are out of said country.
The entire thing against LGBTQ and/ or people of color does not make sense either. Pushing minority groups away just brings more hatred and will lead to violence. Eventually it will even lead to their own misery once they do not fit their “ideal person”.
Same thing regards other religion than their own, it’ll lead to more hatred, violence and eventually their own misery once they do not fit their ideal kind of religion person.
Not only that but history has shown what political far-right does and from what I have read, it is nothing really good. I mean just look to 1930-1945 Germany and Italy with Mussolini.
anti-immigration has always been used a distraction from failure of internal policies, plus the backing with troll farms too.
The simple answer is people want simple answers. Propaganda, especially that of the right gives them. Sure the answers are wrong, but they are easy to digest in the moment.
People want answers, not necessarily simple ones (any answer can be sufficiently simplified), but answers. I mean, it’s not like “the rich are robbing you blind” is much more complicated than “immigrants and the gays are ruining this country;” it’s a question of which message is being amplified and being turned into real action.
The death of the American dream is a big one. Speaking very generally, men want a better future for themselves and are willing to follow whoever promises it, while women are being specifically targeted by conservatives an don’t want anything to do with that shit. The weakness of the American left means that the average person only sees establishment centrism and far-right fascism as options. Also people simply don’t know or think that much about the things you mentioned.
It weaponizes self-esteem. Gives you someone to feel better than.
The population will collapse.
