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There’s two of these threads?! Well ok here’s the same comment.
10.years.ago On.a.cold.dark.night There.was.someone.killed 'Neath.the.town.hall.lights There.were.few.at.the.scene Though.they.all.agreed That.the.slayer.who.ran Looked.a.lot.like.meI miss Ruby DSLs so much. Python is bland. It’s on purpose, I know and even appreciate it.
Yet I feel like Ruby syntax magic compared to Python blandness is like comparing a steaming plate of beautiful aromatic curry to plain rice.
Ok, everyone who’s ever had to use datetime hates it, but not because it’s insufficient, but because international date/time is such a nightmare that the library must be complicated enough to support all the edge cases I’m convinced that library has a function for traveling trough time.
For years I’ve wrapped datetime with custom functions that do exactly and only what I want to mitigate its all-plumbing-zero-porcelain approach to the problem.
This is exactly why I love PowerShell.
Need the [DateTime] object from 10 years ago? No biggie, just chuck
(Get-Date).AddYears(-10)down your console.Need it in a specific timezone? That one’s trickier, but since PowerShell can do .Net, run this:
$TargetDateTime = (Get-Date).AddYears(-10) $TargetTimeZone = "India Standard Time" $tz = [TimeZoneInfo]::FindSystemTimeZoneById($TargetTimeZone) $utcOffset = $tz.GetUtcOffset($TargetDateTime) [DateTimeOffset]::new($TargetDateTime.Ticks, $utcOffset)And you get a DateTimeOffset object, which is this beauty:
DateTime : 25/08/2015 23:15:14 UtcDateTime : 25/08/2015 17:45:14 LocalDateTime : 25/08/2015 19:45:14 Date : 25/08/2015 00:00:00 Day : 25 DayOfWeek : Tuesday DayOfYear : 237 Hour : 23 Millisecond : 421 Microsecond : 428 Nanosecond : 600 Minute : 15 Month : 8 Offset : 05:30:00 TotalOffsetMinutes : 330 Second : 14 Ticks : 635761413144214286 UtcTicks : 635761215144214286 TimeOfDay : 23:15:14.4214286 Year : 2015DateTimeis the time in your target timezone,UtcDateTimeis, well, the UTC time, andLocalDateTimeis the time on host you ran the commands on.
Complicated or not, the interfaces suck. And dont have to. And that’s the problem.
exactly why I wrap the parts I need, it’s like git, tons of power, zero help.
Using ruby felt weird, it felt like it shouldn’t work but it does.
The Python won’t give an accurate date here because it doesn’t take into account leap years.
timedeltamarks time in days, seconds, and microseconds. It doesn’t take leap years into account because the concept of years is irrelevant totimedelta. If you need to account for leap years, you need a different API.365.25*10 would at least get you closer.
You can subtract two dates and get the exact time difference.
Because what’s accurate here depends on the context, and the Python example doesn’t hide that from the programmer.
The same dilemma goes for month calculations: does “3 months ago” mean 90 days ago, 91.3 days ago, this many days into the target month, or this many days from the target month’s end (e.g. to account for 28, 29, 30, and 31-day months)?
The comparison is somewhat awkward, because the rails example presumably produces a date, while the python one is referring to an interval of time.
Just from the meme it’s not obvious which was the actual intended use, so labeling either as inaccurate requires us to make assumptions.Personally, the concept of “10 years ago” is a bit nebulous to me. If today is February 29th, is ten years ago March 1st? Doesn’t seem right. Or particularly useful.
Ruby should add 10.years.ago.today
yeah, that’s pretty much why timedelta doesn’t have the concept of months or years, just days and smaller units. I like it better this way.
Does the Ruby version do that though?
I haven’t got it installed to check, but seeing constants like SECONDS_PER_YEAR in the documentation makes me think it’s just as bad if not worse.
https://api.rubyonrails.org/classes/ActiveSupport/Duration.html
Fuck that. I once used a constraint solver in python where you could
+=a constraint to a problem. This is completely un-discoverable. In any sane language you can use IntelliSense to find that you canproblem.…add(constraint)and be done with it without ever touching a manual. Overloaded operators are cool, but a menace.And while I’m ranting: Angular’s new
addRouting(), withThingA(), withThingB()is complete horseshit, too. The old way of doingaddRouter({and letting the IDE tell you what you could to with the router was so much clearer!I’ll take overloaded operators over overloaded functions any day of the week, and I also hate overloaded operators.
Python’s optional typing has come a very long way in the past few years, you might be able to mitigate this with some creative application of typing.
Edit: I read your post closer, I’m not sure typing would help with the overloaded operator issue and now I have something fun to try out later 😁
Any good inline help would run dir into your variable and discover it overloads that operator. It’s a fault of your tools.
Yukihiro “Matz” Matsumoto has often said that he is “trying to make Ruby natural, not simple,” in a way that mirrors life.
365.25, surely
Never use numbers when calculating dates. Use the data formats and constants the calendar library provides.
365.2425
didn’t we gain or lose 0.00000001ish of a day recently? Like from tonga exploding or antarctica melting or something i can’t remember.
That kind of thing happens surprisingly often.
Sure, if you want things at midday instead of midnight.
People still use ruby?
You probably use it everyday and didn’t know it https://github.blog/engineering/architecture-optimization/building-github-with-ruby-and-rails/
That explains a lot about how GitHub works… or doesn’t.
Yes
Not people who are employed. 😇
I guess I’m the only one then
And I’m the only one too!
I just started a new php gig
I fucking love PHP. I know I probably sound crazy to most developers, but PHP 8+ is freaking dope.
Yeah I was also pleasantly surprised having only heard about it before. Lots of good stuff
I haven’t used or read about PHP after college, and I am quite interesred in what are the good stuffs that you like now.
It is cool to see how languages evolve.
I haven’t used php before and I am not that far into it yet, so I don’t really know what’s gotten better but I like how it handles arrays and it has loads of little functions that make life easier.
It’s best not to think about what PHP used to be. It will make you sick. Just know that it is very mature at this point. It is not as Serverless friendly as some of the other languages, but if you were running a VPS with a more traditional LAMP style set up, you can’t go wrong with PHP
I work with Delphi.
I had a coworker choose RoR for a major project despite the fact that he didn’t know it, nobody on his team knew it, nobody at our company knew it, and nobody in the entire state knew it. It ended as one would expect, after three years and millions of dollars spent, with the only revenue it generated being $50K from the original client that had to be refunded to avoid a lawsuit.
The handful of us have moved onto Crystal Lang. It’s a statically type checked and compiled dialect of Ruby. Crystal is fun to write code, but the compiler is slower (compared to go-lang/rust)… because… well it’s a ruby dialect (with DSL’s)… and the 3rd party libraries are limited.
This type checking, is it at run time?
LLM is saying this is a feature of Rails and not particularly Ruby.
I was surprised Python didn’t have a years parameter but learned about
relativedelta(years=10)
LLM is saying…
Stop. Nothing at all past those three words is worth a damn.
What is the purpose of this comment.
You didn’t seem to be ashamed of admitting to asking an LLM a question as if it was helpful, wise, or respectable for you to have done. You should be.
This is a poor perspective to have on things towards a stranger on the internet. I hope you’re just having a bad day and that things get better.
Yeah its a rails only thing. Rubys biggest issue is its much too intelligent for its own good. Its implicit rather than pythons explicit. Most of the time. That and it’s hard to find out where Ruby starts and rails ends.
That being said I made a ton of good money on rails back about 15 or so years ago. Still excellent for starting out.
Ruby’s biggest issue is rails. Ruby is such a beautiful and highly functional language and yet everyone’s experience with it is rails’ horrific metaprogramming magic. I’ve had numerous people tell me they hate Ruby, and yet when I dig deeper I find out that they don’t actually understand where Ruby ends and rails starts and all of their problems lies on rails side. The majority of people I’ve shown that have come to actually like Ruby where they hated it before.
You can add activesupport (I think that’s it) to get it if you don’t want to use all of rails.
That’s what I end up seeing for most ruby only scripts. It works!
Rails, ActiveSupport I believe, adds this to integers.
But I think one of the interesting things about it is the open nature of classes in ruby.
The thing that makes it possible is that you can open classes in user space and just add stuff to them. It’s a neat feature that few languages have.
The feature, like most features, has pros and cons. On the pro side it makes making DSLs and helpers like this pretty trivial. You can make really expressive ideas and apis because you can change how things you didn’t write work.
On the con side, it’s harder to discover and the methods of an object being the result of runtime mixins can make things hard to reason about.
Having worked in both python and ruby and now elixir for the past couple of years, it’s interesting to see how the languages are similar and different.
There’s an elegant beauty to ruby’s everything is an object and all method calls are messages concept. Python has always struck me as less elegant but the upside is that it can model different ideas in different ways and doesn’t have to try to make them all look like the one central idea.
Even though I find the model behind ruby more pleasing to think about, I tend to enjoy python more due to it being more explicit and easier to reason about. Although that’s pretty subjective.
In any case I think the language feature of open classes is a fascinating one and one of the really different parts of ruby that really distinguishes it from python, for better or worse.
Yeah that feels like the kind of smartass thing Python would do.
This implies that integers in ROR are complex objects with properties that would be unhelpful in the majority of scenarios. Is that right?
Integers are just integers in ruby, with no structure backing them. They behave like objects, but only in some respects. You can call methods on them, but you can’t extend individual numbers with properties for example (which would require them to have structure).
I’m surprised this post hasn’t summoned perl devs yet… 🤨
I’m gonna be honest, I never was drawn to python. I’ve been a professional developer for about a decade, and I’ve written all of one (1) python programs that I can remember (for my own personal use, mind).
What you can achieve in a couple of pages of Python can be pretty spectacular. It’s also mostly very easy-to-read, with the possible exception of class inheritance, which is confusing mess.
If you need to write more than a couple of pages, then its lack of types becomes a hindrance to me - doing refactors when functions can take basically any arguments is quite painful, for instance. Not requiring any particular structure is great, up until you start to struggle with lack of structure.
Ideal programming language for when you’re wanting to do something that would be a bit too unwieldy for a shell script. It also makes network requests and json parsing very straightforward, so it’s great for interacting with REST APIs and writing simple microservices. Fast to write and runs quite quickly, so a good choice for Advent Of Code-like tasks. Would probably choose a different language for larger projects or when working in a team, though.
I like Fish Shell better than python, not gonna lie. Easier to read and write. Especially if you already live in the terminal.
Python is more system agnostic though.
Lucky for me I control all the machines I write scripts for. So far…
How are the dataframe libraries on Ruby?
Removed by mod
are you ok?
ahahaha oh come on, the comment was clearly a joke. To be honest, I’d be far more interested in gothly serious sam on the left.
Can’t see the comment but judging by the uname you’re right, that’s Frank Reynolds’ fake name from It’s Always Sunny, Mantis Toboggan M.D. lmao. I’d wager 95% of what that person says is at least intended to be a joke/satirical/etc.
💀
